Center for American Progress - The Bush Tax Increase

I have read through lots of it. Nothing to see.

But then, I'm looking for facts....not baseless assertions.

 

Since when does being truthful amount to being "witty"? I haven't found any facts on those sites to back your assertion.

I'm all ears though.

I wouldn't want you to lose focus on the "topic at hand":

 

And you have yet to provide evidence that the overall tax + "stealth tax" burden has gone up at all, when all the evidence points to the contrary.

I've stated that at least 3 times in this thread.

 

You've also been saying "all this time" that overall tax burden has increased.

OK, let's "pick" apart your "evidence":

Um....hello? Maybe that's because by next year, just about all of the "Latest Tax Cuts" have already been phased in as of 2003?

So, where exactly in there does it provide evidence to assert that "local / state taxes and levies" (the "effective tax increase" they talk about) have actually outpaced Federal tax burden reductions, such that the net is an increase? That's your entire overriding "point" in this thread...is it not?

 

Living in Connecticut, I've seen my "cost of living" go up due to varying increases in state and local taxes recently, as well as other non-tax items that get passed along to me, but aren't necessarily taken as a tax hike by the state. Property taxes go up, so I have to pay more at the grocer, as example.

I don't know if this affect at the state and local level can be attributed as a Bush increase as American Progress and Natoma is stating, but it can certainly be looked at in that manner. I guess it depends on your perspective. One who doesn't like these policies will probably see it as a "stealth tax" increase while others who do will simply see it as "the way things should be."

"Stealth tax" is a common term among economist Joe. Don't know if you knew or not.

My worthless two cents.

 

Has your state and local taxes ever invreased before?

Don't get me wrong...I completely agree that they can be looked at in that manner.

My main point of contention with Natoma is to show on what basis he can claim that the net effect of any such increases caused the overall tax burden to increase, when combined with federal tax burden reductions. This is what he's been claiming.

 

Natoma showed the slight increase in the percentages he gave earlier. American Progress gave many examples of the 'Bush Tax Increase'. He fleshed it out with macroeconomic figures. I've seen those actually by looking at the congressional spending reports, and the latest figures on the debt and how much the federal tax receipts have declined since 2001.

From there it's only a leap to figure out what makes up the rest. But I don't think you or anyone else who doesn't see this as a "stealth tax" would want to put it all together and form the big picture. As I said, i guess it depend on your perspective of the problem. My father worked in the government all his life, so i have a little inside tack on these things. As always, my worthless two cents. Take it as you will.

 

That's to help pay for your town's fancy new High School built last year (I go by it almost daily)!

 

I only moved gto connecticut in 2001, so I wouldn't have much knowledge on this. Lived in apartments in ny before then, so i wasn't as attuned to issues like property taxes. Sorry that I can't be more detailed. I just don't know.

See my last post.

 

From 2002 to 2003. Overall, there has been a significant decrease from 2000 (Pre tax cuts) to 2003 (post tax cuts).

But have not shown how the net effect is an overall tax increase for most / Average American, which is what Natoma is pushing, and what I specifically object to.

 

I suppose. Though my kids won't be able to take advantage of it for at least another decade. Damn those taxes to hell.

 

Sigh.

But you have not shown how the net effect INCLUDING THE STEALTH TAX is an overall tax increase for most / Average American, which is what you are pushing.

 

Joe wrote:

Ya, how about that Natoma, there's been a decrease?

 

Right...so now all you have to do, is PROVIDE DATA THAT SHOWS that the "average American" is in fact "forced to spend" $301 in stealth taxes, vs. the $300 saved in both fed and state tax cuts.