CELL Patents (J Kahle): APU, PU, DMAC, Cache interactions?

I like Jaws' posts. im always hungry for anything related to next-gen consoles and when there is no news in the mainstream press or gaming press, i know i can always look on the message boards for posts by Jaws, Panajev and others to at least partially satisfy my appitite :) no doubt some of the patents Jaws digs up are related to PS3, even though not all of them are.

we've got 3.5 to 4.5 months before the PS3 Premier.
 
I like Jaws' posts because reading them always gives me a headache, which distracts me from the pain of my stubbed toe. ;)
 
Jaws said:
ultimate_end said:
Jaws said:
ultimate_end said:
...
Now from what I have read (Ask Paul, he will point you in the right direction), Sony intends to use XDR and Redwood interface technology not only with the broadband engine, but also in the Broadband Engine! Now you can draw all of your own conclusions from that.
...

Where did you guys read that?

I have found the link.
Toshiba/SCEI/Rambus Contract excerpt

Thanks for link...It's a shame we can't read the whole doc! :p

ultimate_end said:
...
Anyway, I hope some people look at those two patent applications. I could be wrong, but I don't think they have been brought up on these forums before and AFAIK they are the only cell related patents that refer to clock speed.
I hope these links work: Multiphase clocking method and apparatus and Microprocessor chip simultaneous switching current reduction method and apparatus

As for the PS3 GPU, everybody should note that different parts of that chip may well run at different clockspeeds...

Btw, those patents were discussed in this thread but the patent links are broken (looks like most of these old threads have these broken links! ;) ).

Anyway, yeah I scanned it before and they're very important patents. It's quite conceivable that each PE could be on a ring bus on the BE (obviously they don't have to look like a ring but just a closed loop.) Also the multi-clock for various components on the IC's has always intrigued me, especially on how they would tacke the GPUs PUs, APUs, EDRAM, PixelEngines, buses etc...

I can't believe I missed that thread :oops: . It basically discusses everything that I have mentioned here. I've been reading this forum for a while now, but somehow that one slipped through :? .

Well I'm going to run off in shame and never come back. *hides*

BTW Jaws, please keep up the speculation! Even if some people don't appreciate it, it really is a positive boost for the whole discussion, especially in times when no new information appears. :D
 
Everyones entitled to their own opinions as long as it's constructive! ;) Thanks for all the positive feedback guys! ^__^

Anyway I had some brain farts elseewhere that I needed to put down here before they vanished into thin air! :)

IMHO, I think a market for realtime REYES will likely happen before interactive GI hardware. Long cinematic shaders are here to stay for a while and will eventually move over to the realtime market...why mess around with vertex and pixel shaders when you can just use one shader in REYES and get true displacement mapping, great motion blur and depth of field!? :)

There's a very good chance that the PS3 will be a fully programmable software renderer, a massively parallel, general purpose vector machine designed to eat polygons and shaders for breakfast! As triangle sizes decrease and approach the pixel sizes, REYES pipelines would make more and more sense. And with the flexible hardware, I believe multiple pipelines could be supported, e.g. OpenGL ES and REYES, i.e. OpenGl to get devs started quickly with something familiar and play with REYES later! Similar to the experiment on this Imagine stream processor, comparing Reyes and OpenGL on the same hardware,

http://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/reyes-vs-opengl/

The way I see it is that both the APUs and Pixel Engines can run 32bit flops/ops and as such can run REYES shaders, Vertex shaders and Pixel Shaders but the APUs and Pixel Engines (Salp) are optimised for granularity. You would be able to setup the APU sandboxes and allocate APUs to form custom pipelines and then rasterizes with the pixel engines. When using OpenGL, the pixel engines would rasterize as usual but when using REYES, they would rasterize/process/shade the micro-polygons?

In the above article it demonstrates that the biggest performance hit is when dicing/ splitting and shading. There's plenty of powerful APUs on the CPU to take care of the dicing and the simple, programmable but ultra high filrate (several tens of GPixel/sec) Salc/Salps could take care of shading the micro-polygons. They would have the 'buffer/TMUs' for ultra fast access to textures and also not forgeting the eDRAM. Also if the PUs on the GPU and CPU have L1/L2/L3 cache, they could also act as TMUs for the APUs to reduce latencies for vertex shading etc. Overall that would make a very rounded graphics architecture, no?

IMHO, I also believe this patent would give some idea on the structure of the kind of development environment to expect for PS3/ Cell. The E3 '04 Cell presentation regarding a content creation pipeline that described the realtime OS, Middleware, Tools, Movies, Games, Physics, Database, Sound, Simulation etc. look remarkably like the patent diagrams below. It's middleware and at the heart of it is a realtime kernel, a highly tuned thread manager/ scheduler OS. It forces a certain structure to coding, I presume to provide abstraction and optimise parallelism. It's highly tuned when compiled for multi-threading across multiple processors and would suit Cell nicely? :)

System and method for leveraging independent innovation in entertainment content and graphics hardware

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16229&highlight=ps3+tool

Well...end of brain dump...back to Halo2, HL2 and MP2...you gotta luv sequels! :)
 
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