Canada leaders accept gay marriage ruling

RussSchultz said:
Cannibalism is also practiced in the remote sections of Polynesia. It's obviously natural since it developed outside of modern society.

I demand the constitutional right to eat my enemies.

lol.

Not directed at you Russ:

When I was talking about the Natural Family, in case there were a few that were confused ( I don't know why..) I was talking about the absolute truth of the Father-Mother-Children that absolutely every human being is a creation of.

On the matter of it being learned, well I have argued that indeed I don't know if it is or not. It could be that children are born with the affliction of homosexuality, if could be that they learn it or it could be a little of both. If they are born with it I think sense most parents would rather their child was not homosexual that they could use recent medical advances like homosexuals talk about for reproduction (test tube babies.) to avoid the gene that possibly causes the problem. No responsible parent would allow for their child to be born with that abnormality if they could help it. I am of the mind that children could indeed be forced to fancy homosexuality given the right conditions.

If it is a learned behavior or perversion then we ought to do something about the socializations that enable it.

Before 1981 AIDS was non existent, I believe that this is a result of the significantly lower levels of sexual promiscuity in mid 1950’s and earlier. AIDS takes years to develop serious damage to the immune system, so in reality it is likely the number one contributing factor to the rise of AIDS was the "sexual revolution" which brought us "free sex" (heh, nothing is free and for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.) and "alternative lifestyle" acceptance (homosexuality) not to mention the mushrooming wider variety of STD numbers.

AIDS literally didn't have much of a opportunity without homosexuality and wider promiscuity brought about by the "sexual revolution". AIDS thrives though in the homosexual community as a result of their insistence on using the lower digestive tract as their main boulevard of playing heterosexual sex. The lower intestine is not really well suited for this sort of abuse and bleeding is more common then if one were to engage in vaginal intercourse. The only reason that homosexuals are not still the primary carriers of AIDS in terms of sheer numbers (percentage wise homosexuals are still far more likely to have the virus.) is because the activities of bisexual activity that crossed the virus into the heterosexual community. Sure there are other means like hypodermic needles, butchered monkeys, blood transfusions and the like but the evidence clearly indicates that homosexual activities are the primary culprit for the proliferation of the AIDS virus in N.America. Further the perversion of anal sex has been popularized by the porn industry and now heterosexuals often engage in it. My advice is too anyone I talk to in a candid manner about sex is that they ought not to engage in anal sex, as it is not healthy for the sphincter muscles and this can result in their weakening and possible incontinence particularly if done repeatedly.

Sex education even declares that it is an acceptable (but more risky) alternative to vaginal intercourse. Sex education has its roots in the Swedish education model where radical feminist were actively interested in the breaking of the traditional family so that they may have some form of socialism/egalitarian welfare state. The Swedes found that (in the 50's) if you teach children about sex, premarital birth rates increased. ( heh, imagine that.) But after they discovered this fact they didn't discontinue the practice and the seeds for the "sexual revolution" were planted.

I love how when you point out the fact that it was homosexuals that are the main source of AIDS in the first place (in light of the stats this is exactly the case.) that you ought to go back and get "reeducated", I don't know as it seems a little common sense goes along way here. I dislike brainwashing, common sense gets thrown out the window. Besides we all know the only reason that homosexuals are not pinned for the earlier proliferation of the AIDS virus is because it isn’t nice and creates opposition to their plight.

On the matter of “virginity inspections†in Africa someone brought up. I don’t believe that the government in place is advocating anything of the sort but rather advocating that promiscuity is very bad and that people ought not to do it. I believe that they are even advocating sex within marriage as most acceptable. With that philosophy they have managed to nearly wipe out the AIDS growth rate.

Heh, I detect some logic here.

Dave H said:
Could this have anything whatsoever to do with the fact that men are biologically wired to be more sexually promiscuous than women?

I couldn’t agree more, and this is why homosexuals looking for a quick fix can do it and are more promiscus then hetrosexuals.

Oh, more logic. Dave I am afraid that you are making my argument with this post.

Dave H said:
Imagine if there were no such thing as marriage. Society did not expect, much less demand, that couples should stay together for life, raise a family together, etc. There was no cultural value put on lasting monogamous relationships; the only reason not to "cheat" on a lover (except, without an existing social contract that forbids sleeping around, there is no sense in which sleeping with someone else is "cheating") would be because you had no desire to or out of pure concern for their feelings.

Here though you stray…

Dave H said:
Do you think that, just maybe, heterosexuals would be more promiscuous under those circumstances?

You just got done explaining to me why homosexual males are more promiscuous. ( MSM) What makes you think that those circumstances are not already in place?

Dave H said:
What about if society actively disapproved of heterosexual relationships altogether, and discriminated against couples living together, spending time doing romantic things in public together, or declaring their love for each other. Might that, just perhaps, result in fewer lasting, committed relationships and maybe more hookups based only on sex?

Funny thing is that this goes against nature and would never really be accepted. One of the defining aspects of life is that it reproduces. Let’s reverse the logic here and immediately the truth becomes too apparent. In the above scenario only homosexual relationships are approved of (preposterous as it may be.) and all heterosexual activity severely disapproved of. Well it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that mankind would be non existent. Homosexuality is disapproved of for many reasons by nearly all societies over the course of history, not simply because of the cultures that believe in Christianity. I even personally have distain for a man whom sounds or talks like a woman, I don’t know why, I just do.

Anyhow that is all the time I will waste on this subject today.
 
As I've said before Joe. People have had their own definition of "Natural" which was completely flawed. How is your definition also flawed?

Yet again, infertile heterosexual couples.

Yet again, heterosexual senior citizen couples. You pick two random senior citizens out of the crowd, one male and one female, and in NO case will they be able to reproduce.

Guess they're not natural. And that is why your definition of "natural" is *completely* flawed. But I've stated this before. And I'll probably state it again.
 
Silent_One said:
You know you can argue away all meaning and definitions untill there is no boundries anymore. By your logic there is no definition of natural anymore. I mean is it so hard to understand what Joe is saying is true? You want to be married to your partner, Great! You want to adopt kids, hey, I'm all for it, there's too many kiids without any loving parents. But is it so hard to admit that you and your partner can't have offspring "naturally"? I mean...jeezzz

That would just throw off his whole entire universe, apparently. To admit that what he is isn't "natural" in ANY sense, to him means some kind of invalidation.

What any RATIONAL homophile would argue is that despite homosexuality not being natural in some respects, it shouldn't be descriminated against, for X-Y-Z reasons.

Same as the "cloning" or genetic engineering debate. No one argues that these things are "natural." We all know it's not natural. The debate is about whether or not it's "acceptable" or not, or at what level of acceptance it should have. (Cloning entire humans, cloning animals, cloning for tissue.) Not being Natural is one argument for limiting or flat out rejecting its acceptance. There are other reasons for accepting it.
 
Natoma said:
Yet again, infertile heterosexual couples.
Yet again, heterosexual senior citizen couples.

Yet again, I debunked that argument eons ago. Or don't you read my posts.

You pick two random senior citizens out of the crowd, one male and one female, and in NO case will they be able to reproduce.

Senior Citizens are a subsection of human males and females. Your rebuttle is fundamentally flawed because it relies on singling out certain individuals.

My definition does not rely on any such limitations.

Guess they're not natural.

Guess you don't read too well.

And that is why your definition of "natural" is *completely* flawed. But I've stated this before. And I'll probably state it again.

And you will again have failed to adequately address my definition. But don't let that stop you.
 
Joe wrote:
I can sense that I know Natoma's next response...probably ignoring the point that two same-sex individuals can "never" produce offspring through sexual means, and will try and claim that I'm putting artificial restrictions on my definition by "excluding" old age or infirtile couples.

Natoma wrote:
As I've said before Joe. People have had their own definition of "Natural" which was completely flawed. How is your definition also flawed?

Yet again, infertile heterosexual couples.

Yet again, heterosexual senior citizen couples. You pick two random senior citizens out of the crowd, one male and one female, and in NO case will they be able to reproduce.

Guess they're not natural. And that is why your definition of "natural" is *completely* flawed. But I've stated this before. And I'll probably state it again.

Good prediction Joe :LOL:
 
Suppose we pick two oppositely sexed individuals, at complete random, from a population of infertile people. What would our chances of them concieving be?

A hell of a lot higher than a man poking another man up the butt.

Thank you, I'll be here all the week. Try the veal and tip your waitress.


Seriously though, Natoma. People just aren't going to agree with you on this one. You're just going to have to let go and accept that some people aren't ever going to place your lifestyle in their 'natural' category, regardless of how you define natural.
 
Take all of the seniors in the world, group them together. Whether you take female/male, male/male, or female/female, you will NEVER get a combination that can reproduce.

Just like if you take all the homosexuals in the world and group them together, you will NEVER get a combination that can reproduce. Homosexuals are a subsect of human males and human females as well.

So your grandparents and great grandparents are not natural relationships, by your definition.
 
Take all of the seniors in the world, group them together. Whether you take female/male, male/male, or female/female, you will NEVER get a combination that can reproduce.

Just like if you take all the homosexuals in the world and group them together, you will NEVER get a combination that can reproduce.

So your grandparents and great grandparents are not natural relationships.

Oh!...I get it...(slaps head)....their not natural relationships once you can't have kids! :rolleyes:
 
Silent_One said:
Take all of the seniors in the world, group them together. Whether you take female/male, male/male, or female/female, you will NEVER get a combination that can reproduce.

Just like if you take all the homosexuals in the world and group them together, you will NEVER get a combination that can reproduce.

So your grandparents and great grandparents are not natural relationships.

Oh!...I get it...(slaps head)....their not natural relationships once you can't have kids! :rolleyes:

Hey that's Joe's definition. Not mine. If the relationship cannot produce children, then it is not natural.

That is why I said his definition is flawed.
 
Natoma said:
Take all of the seniors in the world, group them together. Whether you take female/male, male/male, or female/female, you will NEVER get a combination that can reproduce.

Just like if you take all the homosexuals in the world and group them together, you will NEVER get a combination that can reproduce. Homosexuals are a subsect of human males and human females as well.

So your grandparents and great grandparents are not natural relationships, by your definition.

But we are all a derivative of the natural family, Father - Mother - Children. Your line of argument is fundamentally inconsistent, Natoma..
 
Sabastian said:
Natoma said:
Take all of the seniors in the world, group them together. Whether you take female/male, male/male, or female/female, you will NEVER get a combination that can reproduce.

Just like if you take all the homosexuals in the world and group them together, you will NEVER get a combination that can reproduce. Homosexuals are a subsect of human males and human females as well.

So your grandparents and great grandparents are not natural relationships, by your definition.

But we are all a derivative of the natural family, Father - Mother - Children. Your line of argument is fundamentally inconsistent, Natoma..

So if you have a man and a woman living together and they don't have any children, they're not a natural family? I mean, your definition is "Father - Mother - Children."

That's a very narrow viewpoint.
 
arjan de lumens said:
Hmmm .. to derail the discussion a little: who would this person need to have sex with to be considered heterosexual?

heh, oh I love it when people go to point out this extremley rare birth defect.

There is no such thing as a real hermaphrodite, none have ever reproduced.
 
Oh and just so everyone knows where Joe has stated this, I direct your attention to earlier in this thread when he was responding to an earlier poster:

Joe DeFuria said:
Only someone with a distinct ignorance of sexual reproduction would claim that homosexual relationship can result in the natural birth of a child based on the combined genetic make-up of the individuals in question.

His definition of natural has been based off of that assumption. Since a homosexual relationship cannot result in the natural birth of a child based on the combined genetic make-up of the individuals in question, that homosexual relationship is not natural.

Thus the infertile who get into relationships are not natural, and by extension, senior relationships are not natural.

It is because of this that I state that his definition is completely and fundamentally flawed, and for no other reason. Now of course he will no doubt try to insert some qualifier as to why it doesn't fit those two instances. But then if you have to insert qualifiers into your definition, it must have been flawed from the get go no?
 
Natoma said:
Sabastian said:
Natoma said:
Take all of the seniors in the world, group them together. Whether you take female/male, male/male, or female/female, you will NEVER get a combination that can reproduce.

Just like if you take all the homosexuals in the world and group them together, you will NEVER get a combination that can reproduce. Homosexuals are a subsect of human males and human females as well.

So your grandparents and great grandparents are not natural relationships, by your definition.

But we are all a derivative of the natural family, Father - Mother - Children. Your line of argument is fundamentally inconsistent, Natoma..

So if you have a man and a woman living together and they don't have any children, they're not a natural family? I mean, your definition is "Father - Mother - Children."

That's a very narrow viewpoint.

Yes that is right Natoma they are not Father - Mother - Children. I didn't say they were not a family of sorts, the proper label would be a couple though.
 
Natoma said:
Take all of the seniors in the world, group them together. Whether you take female/male, male/male, or female/female, you will NEVER get a combination that can reproduce.

How many times you can improperly apply my definition?

Take ALL THE PEOPLE in the world, and group them together. Full stop. Not all seniors in the world, not all homosexuals in the world...all people. There is no "subsection of people"...just MALES and FEMALES.

Apply EVERY SINGLE combination of same sex partners. I'm not saying every combination of homosexuals. Sorry to be blunt, but at this point, it's needed: take every MALE, homosexual or not, and poke his ass with the penis of EVERY OTHER MALE. Homosexual or not.

Probability of offspring? ZERO

You can't say "just single out seniors and pair them up." I am NOT PAIRING UP HOMOSEXUALS WITH ONE ANOTHER. I am pairing up SAME SEX individuals.
 
Sabastian said:
There is no such thing as a real hermaphrodite, non have ever reproduced.

Huh? The definition of a hermaphrodite is someone who is born with both sex organs. Not necessarily that they are functional. So what are you saying now, they don't exist because they can't reproduce?

Damn.......
 
Natoma said:
Sabastian said:
There is no such thing as a real hermaphrodite, non have ever reproduced.

Huh? The definition of a hermaphrodite is someone who is born with both sex organs. Not necessarily that they are functional. So what are you saying now, they don't exist because they can't reproduce?

Damn.......

No real hermaphrodite exists in humanity. Some species are hermaphrodite such as earthworms, leeches, frogs do not require an opposite sex to reproduce. In humans it is considered a birth defect and in no way a good or normal one.
 
Natoma said:
Oh and just so everyone knows where Joe has stated this, I direct your attention to earlier in this thread when he was responding to an earlier poster:

Another interesting exercise in taking things out of context, my guess:

Joe DeFuria said:
Only someone with a distinct ignorance of sexual reproduction would claim that homosexual relationship can result in the natural birth of a child based on the combined genetic make-up of the individuals in question.

Natoma said:
His definition of natural has been based off of that assumption. Since a homosexual relationship cannot result in the natural birth of a child based on the combined genetic make-up of the individuals in question, that homosexual relationship is not natural. Thus the infertile who get into relationships are not natural, and by extension, senior relationships are not natural.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

ALL HUMAN MALE-FEMALE SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS ARE NATURAL SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS BECAUSE THERE IS A GREATER THAN ZERO PROBABILITY THAT ANY RANDOM HUMAN MALE-FEMALE SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP WILL RESULT IN OFFSPRING.

It is because of this that I state that his definition is completely and fundamentally flawed, and for no other reason.

It is because you continually misrepresent my definition that you see it as fundamentally flawed.

Now of course he will no doubt try to insert some qualifier as to why it doesn't fit those two instances. But then if you have to insert qualifiers into your definition, it must have been flawed from the get go no?

NO QUALIFIER NEEDED. Nor have I EVER used a qualifier. YOU are using a qualifier of "senior citizens" or "infertile couples".
 
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