C&VG: Xbox2 To Be Unveiled at GDC

[DeadmeatGA]

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However, few will argue that the old man tech demo looks more realistic than this Silent Hill 3 old man.

The old man had something like 60K polygons per frame and rendered hair and wrinkles. The SH3 old man's facial details are nothing but a texture map. You lack the ability to observe the miniscule details...

 

[DeadmeatGA]

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Hell, I think flat out they should lie about their specifications in order to create hype, Or atleast be misleading. I Think this would benefit Nintendo come launch.

But I doubt poor Nintendo can top the master of deception and misleading himself. Afterall, we are told to believe that a $399 console will be doing a teraflop in 2005....

 

[Paul]

I don't care what type of geometry the old man demo is pushing, it doesn't undermine the fact that it does not look as realistic as the Silent hill 3 characters faces.

But sure Deadmeat, maybe the Tech demo is more technically impressive; however I IMO do not think overall it looks better.

But I doubt poor Nintendo can top the master of deception and misleading himself. Afterall, we are told to believe that a $399 console will be doing a teraflop in 2005....

Yup, and before you go bashing Sony, who were the ones who downgraded their system specifications twice? And who were the ones who upgraded it from what was first shown?

But anyway, Nintendo should and could claim all types of insane numbers and than downgrade maybe a month before launch. It's time Nintendo played dirty.

 

[DeadmeatGA]

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I don't care what type of geometry the old man demo is pushing

You should care because PSX2 was never shown to be capable of such level of geometry and texture details. Oddly enough, none of so called "demos" suffered from the aliasing problem that plauged the first-gen titles either. So what the hell was actually doing the demo back in 1999???

it doesn't undermine the fact that it does not look as realistic as the Silent hill 3 characters faces.

So konami had good artists to work on the model. It has nothing to do with a system's capability.

But sure Deadmeat, maybe the Tech demo is more technically impressive; however I IMO do not think overall it looks better.

The same artist would be doing an even better looking model on something like Xbox or GC...

_________________

 

[Paul]

You should care because PSX2 was never shown to be capable of such level of geometry and texture details. Oddly enough, none of so called "demos" suffered from the aliasing problem that suffered the first-gen titles either. So what the hell was actually doing the demo back in 1999???

Again you are clueless about the concept of a 'tech demo'. Oh and what's this? Another Conspiracy theory by DMGA again? Let me guess, your ready to hang up the Sony put in the second VU at the last moment BS.

So konami had good artists to work on the model. It has nothing to do with a system's capability.

Let me guess, good artists using a SNES could do the same result? This is the logic you are going by.

The same artist would be doing an even better looking model on something like Xbox or GC...

Your point? Or is this just another jab at Sony.

 

[DeadmeatGA]

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Again you are clueless about the concept of a 'tech demo'.

A tech demo is a presentation of what the product is actually capable of, not a free advertisement of SGI boxes(SGI meant something in those days)

Let me guess, good artists using a SNES could do the same result? This is the logic you are going by.

Let us have a mature conversation here instead.

Your point? Or is this just another jab at Sony.

According to EA, Xbox is 2~3x as fast as PSX2 in shader performance. Everybody knows the Xbox is far more powerful than the PSX2, there is no point in disputing it.

Beside, Square supplied demos were nothing compared to SCEI supplied demos, especially that "Rubber Duck" thing. I am still waiting after 4 years to see that "Rubber Duck" thing actually running on the PSX2...

 

[Paul]

A tech demo is a presentation of what the product is actually capable of, not a free advertisement of SGI boxes(SGI meant something in those days)

Yea, and PS2 WAS doing all of those tech demo's in REAL TIME deadmeat. However you fail to see what the reality behind a tech demo is, all of the resources of the PS2 were FIXATED on just doing that facial model or that car racing on the track, or that dancing scene.

The old man demo was shown to show how realistic of a face PS2 could do in real time, and hell, Silent hill 3, by whatever means, showed that it was indeed capable in real time. Just look at the realism of both. Technical claims mean nothing so don't bring it up, overall quality in the end does.

It's just a tech demo, there is nothing like AI going on, it's not a REAL game in which there are a dozen other things that are slowing down the system.

Let us have a mature conversatio here instead.

So good artists can overcome anything? This is what you said.

According to EA, Xbox is 2~3x as fast as PSX2 in shader performance. Everybody knows the Xbox is far more powerful than the PSX2, there is no point in disputing it.

Since when did I dispute that Xbox wasn't more powerfull than PS2? I was questioning why you even brought GC or Xbox into this in the first place.

 

[randycat99]

Re: ...

According to EA, Xbox is 2~3x as fast as PSX2 in shader performance. Everybody knows the Xbox is far more powerful than the PSX2, there is no point in disputing it.

Uhhh, you are hyping the Xbox's 2-3x shader performance, yet you knock the SH3 image because it uses some fancy texture effect? OK, Krazy Ivan... I guess all of Xbox's shader benefits are bogus displays of performance then? Of course not for Xbox...

 

[DeadmeatGA]

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Yea, and PS2 WAS doing all of those tech demo's in REAL TIME

Then how come it can't do it today???

all of the resources of the PS2 were FIXATED on just doing that facial model or that car racing on the track, or that dancing scene.

Square claimed that the old man demo was using only 33% of EE's power. That leaves 66% of CPU power to do other stuffs.

The old man demo was shown to show how realistic of a face PS2 could do in real time, and hell, Silent hill 3, by whatever means, showed that it was indeed capable in real time.

Do individual facial wrinkle and hair animate in SH3???

It's just a tech demo, there is nothing like AI going on, it's not a REAL game in which there are a dozen other things that are slowing down the system.

I am not asking for a game. I am asking for a demo CD that can be played on PSX2s sitting in millions of homes. I am talking about a CD that you can stick into PSX2 and watch the rubber duck float in the sink, a digital dicaprio talking to me, photo-realistic GT2K cars, FF8 cut-scene in real time, etc. All promised but never delivered. And dumb fanb-ys have a too poor memory to remember Kutaragi's false promises and protest.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The old man had something like 60K polygons per frame and rendered hair and wrinkles. The SH3 old man's facial details are nothing but a texture map. You lack the ability to observe the miniscule details...

The old man was just a head and had no background, no full scene stencil shadows + self-shadowing, etc...

All in all Silent Hill 3 shows one of the indisputable strengths of PlayStation 2, the 2.4 GPixels/s fill-rate and gorgeous bandwidth that the e-DRAM has ( 150 GB/s to fill page-breaks ).

 

[Fox5]

Re: ...

Hell, I think flat out they should lie about their specifications in order to create hype, Or atleast be misleading. I Think this would benefit Nintendo come launch.

But I doubt poor Nintendo can top the master of deception and misleading himself. Afterall, we are told to believe that a $399 console will be doing a teraflop in 2005....

A $399 console?! While a bit easier to stomach now than it was when the saturn released(it was twice the price of what we were used to paying for new systems, and it didn't come with a free game!), I can't see sony releasing ps2 for this much and not losing major market share, no matter how powerful the console is. I could see them spending $400 on it and selling it for $300 for the first 6 months to a year though.

 

[Paul]

Then how come it can't do it today???

The quality has already been matched and in some cases surpassed in real time games on PS2.

Square claimed that the old man demo was using only 33% of EE's power. That leaves 66% of CPU power to do other stuffs.

Yea and probably all 4mb of GS's vram are fixed on that face. Which leaves how much texture memory for 'other stuffs'?

Do individual facial wrinkle and hair animate in SH3???

Irrelevant. We are talking visual quality.

I am not asking for a game. I am asking for a demo CD that can be played on PSX2s sitting in millions of homes. I am talking about a CD that you can stick into PSX2 and watch the rubber duck float in the sink, a digital dicaprio talking to me, photo-realistic GT2K cars, FF8 cut-scene in real time, etc. All promised but never delivered. And dumb fanb-ys have a too poor memory to remember Kutaragi's false promises and protest.

They were just that, TECH DEMOS. I'm sorry that you got hyped up so much that you were disapointed, hell you wouldn't be the first. A tech demo is a tech demo, you obviously don't understand even what a tech demo is.

A NV30 can do a near photorealistic rendering of a woman(Dawn), but can it do this in a real game world with equaly as complex enviornments and AI? Nope, that's why it's a "tech demo".

 

[Fox5]

Heh, ok then, on PC I want a real time game of the 3d mark nature demo.(I think 2001 nature demo, if there wasn't one in that, then whatever the first one was, cause it looked better than the 2nd one, and I haven't seen any actual pc games look that good, plus it runs pretty darn fast)

 

[jvd]

Paul , deadmeat . Please stop bickering with each other.