If you have some figures to discredit my wage data L233, put up or shut up.
The problem with you L233, is that you frequently buy into propaganda, like the oft-repeated assertion that the US Govt "armed" Saddam (uh huh, with all those Migs and T72s we produce) Oh and then's there's the assertion that we "gave" him chemical weapons (uh huh, a country whose economy is wholly dependant on chemical plants and had no sanctions against it, and bought pre-cursor components from 20 countries, was somehow "given" chemical weapons)
I understand that when an American points out to Eurosnobs that their information is incorrect, and that Eurosnobs aren't the morally righteous people they make themselves out to be, they become defensive. Buried in the past my ass. Europeans criticize US on Kyoto with moral certitude, then increase their emissions. "old europe" pretend to be great saviors of the Iraqi people and peace, then we find out they are supplying saddam with intelligence, taking political bribes, and making agreements for oil with him. France talks about the need for multilateralism, but in the past 2 years it invaded Africa 3 times without talking to the UN at all.
That when Europeans decry American corporate Sweatshops and cry on about US consumption of middle east oil, they overlook the fact that they import 60% of their oil from the middle east, that they themselves are building sweatshops everywhere. The fact that you try to compare US behavior to the Nazis and European behavior to Dresden shows your bizarre worldview, that there is this huge gulf between how evil the US is and how relatively mundane EU behavior is.
I simply ask for balance. Why not start out your sentences as "Western nations building sweatshops in third world.." Why do eurosnobs always have to exempt themselves from the discussion as if their nations are above it? Just look at the Dutch garment industry sweatshops. Do you have any figures showing the level of exploitation of third world people? If not, why start out your sentences with "greedy US exploiters.." if your own country is half the problem?
But back to the discussion at hand -- US government figures, left-wing think labor think tanks, and unions claim a rise in median wages over the last 30 years. The three drops in real wages are readily account for by 3 events: Nixon's 1971-74 wage and price controls, Carter's stagflation and recession, and Bush Sr's recession. In the years between recessions, and after 1980s monetary policy boxed up inflation, wages shown increase. In the 1995-2000 era, with low inflation, and no recession, the wage growth was considerable.
I can understand if Europeans with their stagnant socialist economies want to deny this because it threatens their worldview of "social Europe", that Americans can run a freer market system, and people can still benefit, but it is undeniable.
So if you have something to say L233, let's hear it. Let's see those BLS/IRS figures disproving that wages in 2003 are higher than in 1973 when accounted for PCE (a correction formula based on CPI that I already said was over-conservative)
What's your excuse for this? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/20/wirq20.xml
Oh, I suppose drawing attention to Germans assisting a brutal dictator against their own ally and hoping to cash out on contracts is like calling attention to Dresden, when the US liberation is a "holocaust". But this is all buried in the past right... Germany and Europe is reformed now, in the last 50 years they have achieved a high level of morality, while we Americans are still brutes in the jungle.
The problem with you L233, is that you frequently buy into propaganda, like the oft-repeated assertion that the US Govt "armed" Saddam (uh huh, with all those Migs and T72s we produce) Oh and then's there's the assertion that we "gave" him chemical weapons (uh huh, a country whose economy is wholly dependant on chemical plants and had no sanctions against it, and bought pre-cursor components from 20 countries, was somehow "given" chemical weapons)
I understand that when an American points out to Eurosnobs that their information is incorrect, and that Eurosnobs aren't the morally righteous people they make themselves out to be, they become defensive. Buried in the past my ass. Europeans criticize US on Kyoto with moral certitude, then increase their emissions. "old europe" pretend to be great saviors of the Iraqi people and peace, then we find out they are supplying saddam with intelligence, taking political bribes, and making agreements for oil with him. France talks about the need for multilateralism, but in the past 2 years it invaded Africa 3 times without talking to the UN at all.
That when Europeans decry American corporate Sweatshops and cry on about US consumption of middle east oil, they overlook the fact that they import 60% of their oil from the middle east, that they themselves are building sweatshops everywhere. The fact that you try to compare US behavior to the Nazis and European behavior to Dresden shows your bizarre worldview, that there is this huge gulf between how evil the US is and how relatively mundane EU behavior is.
I simply ask for balance. Why not start out your sentences as "Western nations building sweatshops in third world.." Why do eurosnobs always have to exempt themselves from the discussion as if their nations are above it? Just look at the Dutch garment industry sweatshops. Do you have any figures showing the level of exploitation of third world people? If not, why start out your sentences with "greedy US exploiters.." if your own country is half the problem?
But back to the discussion at hand -- US government figures, left-wing think labor think tanks, and unions claim a rise in median wages over the last 30 years. The three drops in real wages are readily account for by 3 events: Nixon's 1971-74 wage and price controls, Carter's stagflation and recession, and Bush Sr's recession. In the years between recessions, and after 1980s monetary policy boxed up inflation, wages shown increase. In the 1995-2000 era, with low inflation, and no recession, the wage growth was considerable.
I can understand if Europeans with their stagnant socialist economies want to deny this because it threatens their worldview of "social Europe", that Americans can run a freer market system, and people can still benefit, but it is undeniable.
So if you have something to say L233, let's hear it. Let's see those BLS/IRS figures disproving that wages in 2003 are higher than in 1973 when accounted for PCE (a correction formula based on CPI that I already said was over-conservative)
What's your excuse for this? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/20/wirq20.xml
Oh, I suppose drawing attention to Germans assisting a brutal dictator against their own ally and hoping to cash out on contracts is like calling attention to Dresden, when the US liberation is a "holocaust". But this is all buried in the past right... Germany and Europe is reformed now, in the last 50 years they have achieved a high level of morality, while we Americans are still brutes in the jungle.
Which regime did they chance? Which country did they "disarm"? Which natural ressources did they secure by military accupation? Which French companies did they assign to exploit those ressources and take over the national economy? Where did they establish permanent military bases? Which country did they bomb and then overrun with a horde of 300.000?
