Yup, Its probaby due to taxes or similiar...
On my M5 example, about 60% of the total cost are Taxes to the government....
BMW 328i Sedan
- Thread starter digitalwanderer
- Start date
Yup, Its probaby due to taxes or similiar...
On my M5 example, about 60% of the total cost are Taxes to the government....
DuckThor Evil
Legend
well, the US prices are really low in comparison. The S65 costs about $180k, while in Germany it's about 205,000 € (266,000$).
Then it's prolly 300,000 € in Norway
M5 is 136k€ in Finland and S65 AMG is 325K€, so if the difference between M5 and S65 translates directly it would mean that S65 AMG costs about 515k€ in Norway. Cars are even more expensive than that in Denmark I think.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Cant you buy a car in lets say germany and drive it in Finland under german plates?
DuckThor Evil
Legend
Not for long, you have to register it in Finland quite soon, and pay heavy tax on top of it and the sum of that would be more than what we pay now. Finland and other countries that have very high car prices actually get better deals from the car manufacturers. I think the tax free price in Denmark is probably the lowest in Europe and that's why some people go there to buy a car and then pay the tax in their home country saving nice amount of money in the process, because of the low tax free price.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Already thought so. You also have to register a foreign car in Holland. But I wonder who will actually control that? If I pay road taxes and have the car insured, than who can say im not allowed to drive it in Holland?
These countries have also been part of the testing grounds for deploying low-volume, low emissions, high mileage engines (that wouldn't be viable elsewhere) in production cars. Paying a premium for something comparatively weak would just not be economical for the consumer in many other markets where taxes are different and fuel is cheaper.
Blazkowicz
Legend
we don't pay a premium for a small (around 3.5m) car with a 1.0 liter engine, as they usually are the cheapest.
No, probably not, but that's not what I meant. Before engine-size based, emissions based, or whatever based taxation came into play, the most economical thing would be to just make the engine a bit bigger if you wanted more power. Without the incentive to manufacturers to commit R&D to make them and to consumers to buy them, the smaller and more efficient engines with 'enough' power might not have come to be at all. In other words, an 1.6 liter engine might still be 85HP and we might have gotten a 2.2 liter if we wanted 110.
Blazkowicz
Legend
thanks I hadn't got it..
The norwegian (stupid) system is based on mainly the following:
1) kw/bhp
2) ccm
3) weight
And unfortunately those are not linear either, or rather, they're linear, but in 3 (or 4) different scales so to speak.....
Example.
The first 50 kw might cost X pr kw
The next 50-100kw might cost 5X pr kw
Any kw above 100 might cost 20X pr kw
Same goes for weight and ccm, so in short, the bigger & more powerful the engine (& car) is, the more expensive.
1) kw/bhp
2) ccm
3) weight
And unfortunately those are not linear either, or rather, they're linear, but in 3 (or 4) different scales so to speak.....
Example.
The first 50 kw might cost X pr kw
The next 50-100kw might cost 5X pr kw
Any kw above 100 might cost 20X pr kw
Same goes for weight and ccm, so in short, the bigger & more powerful the engine (& car) is, the more expensive.
I believe Norway is one of the countries that has added CO2 emissions to their tax policy an that it replaced volume.
It might have been changed recently, or atleast there has been talks about it, but last time i checked (about 2 years ago) it wasnt.....
Yup, went and checked, and you are correct, was changed 1.1.2007. New cars now have a CO2 emission based tax instead of the ccm one. Old cars still have the ccm one ...
The exact numbers for a normal car is: (and as you can see, having a car with plenty of bhp/kw makes it pretty darn expensive And yes, the taxes are all 3 combined, you cant choose one )
NOK X.X pr kilo of the first Y kilo's of the weight
kr 33,16 pr. kg av de første 1 150 kg av egenvekten,
kr 72,27 pr. kg av de neste 250 kg av egenvekten,
kr 144,55 pr. kg av de neste 100 kg av egenvekten,
kr 168,11 pr. kg av resten (vektavgift),
NOK X.X pr kw of the first Y kw of the engines power
kr 120,59 pr. kW av de første 65 kW av motoreffekten,
kr 502,47 pr. kW av de neste 25 kW av motoreffekten,
kr 1205,92 pr. kW av de neste 40 kW av motoreffekten,
kr 2512,33 pr. kW av resten (motoreffektavgift)
NOK X.X pr gram pr kilometer of the first Y grams of the CO2-emission
kr 40,20 pr. g/km av de første 120 g av CO2-utslippet,
kr 190,94 pr. g/km av de neste 20 g av CO2-utslippet,
kr 502,47 pr. g/km av de neste 40 g av CO2-utslippet,
kr 1406,90 pr. g/km av resten (utslippsavgift).
Yup, went and checked, and you are correct, was changed 1.1.2007. New cars now have a CO2 emission based tax instead of the ccm one. Old cars still have the ccm one ...
The exact numbers for a normal car is: (and as you can see, having a car with plenty of bhp/kw makes it pretty darn expensive
And yes, the taxes are all 3 combined, you cant choose one )NOK X.X pr kilo of the first Y kilo's of the weight
kr 33,16 pr. kg av de første 1 150 kg av egenvekten,
kr 72,27 pr. kg av de neste 250 kg av egenvekten,
kr 144,55 pr. kg av de neste 100 kg av egenvekten,
kr 168,11 pr. kg av resten (vektavgift),
NOK X.X pr kw of the first Y kw of the engines power
kr 120,59 pr. kW av de første 65 kW av motoreffekten,
kr 502,47 pr. kW av de neste 25 kW av motoreffekten,
kr 1205,92 pr. kW av de neste 40 kW av motoreffekten,
kr 2512,33 pr. kW av resten (motoreffektavgift)
NOK X.X pr gram pr kilometer of the first Y grams of the CO2-emission
kr 40,20 pr. g/km av de første 120 g av CO2-utslippet,
kr 190,94 pr. g/km av de neste 20 g av CO2-utslippet,
kr 502,47 pr. g/km av de neste 40 g av CO2-utslippet,
kr 1406,90 pr. g/km av resten (utslippsavgift).
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Dig, if you'ra a GM-man, check out http://www.saabusa.com/ The Saab 9-5 is getting a bit long i the tooth, but the 9-3 is really nice although smaller. The 9-3 Aero stationwagon is my favourite. I think the gas/alcohol engines are all 4 cylinder, but they are turbo charged and have great torque. Top scores in crash tests and statistics, if thats important to you. Test drive one of you get the chance
The 9-3 is a Subaru impreza with slightly modified body.
No, the Saaburu model was the Saab 9-2X, which is now discontinued. The current 9-3 along with the 9-5 are the last of the Swedish Saabs.
DuckThor Evil
Legend
They are both owned by GM and use many common components. The new Cadillac BLS is also basically a 9-3. I have been under the impression that the Turbo engines have been at least partly developed by Saab though.
That might be, I just thought they share the same basic platform. I read somewhere the diesel engines actually come from Alfa/Fiat and both Opel and Saab use them. Maybe tweaked.
I'd surely prefer an old 900 model, I loved the looks of that car!
Yeah that's correct. Both the 1.9 and 2.2L diesel engine are from Fiat and I've since been forced to re-evaluate Italian engineering. It's a very good engine. The 1.9L engine is also used by Suzuki's SX4 which I've been eying for some time now. I just like it for some unknown reason.
As for SAAB "tweaking" engines, GM's turbo development facility is placed in Trollhättan so quite a lot of changes are still being made there. The new V6 was handed over to the SAAB engineers to modify it and get it working with a single turbocharger for instance. It was first released in the 05 Aero's I belive then the Cadillac BLS.
As for SAAB "tweaking" engines, GM's turbo development facility is placed in Trollhättan so quite a lot of changes are still being made there. The new V6 was handed over to the SAAB engineers to modify it and get it working with a single turbocharger for instance. It was first released in the 05 Aero's I belive then the Cadillac BLS.