Beyond 2D graphics performance on consoles? :)

[j^aws]

Just wondering on 2D perforfance on consoles this gen and what will be possible next gen?

With the current set of consoles the 2D performance is limited by CPU horsepower and pixel fillrate right? With the PS2 having the greatest fillrate at 2.4 GPixels/Sec, does it have an edge on the others?

IIRC, the PC-Engine FX sacrificed 3D for state-of-the-art 2D performance last gen but mis-judged the trend to 3D with PS1 and N64...will there be another renaissance with 2D?

And what can we expect from 2D performance for next gen consoles? Some extremely pretty looking games will be possible right? Or is it just a dying art? Street Fighter 4 anyone? 8)

 

[aaaaa00]

With the current set of consoles the 2D performance is limited by CPU horsepower and pixel fillrate right? With the PS2 having the greatest fillrate at 2.4 GPixels/Sec, does it have an edge on the others?

This generation, 2D performance is mainly limited by total system RAM, in which case the xbox wins by default. The more system RAM you have, the more art you can have loaded at once, everything else being equal.

All the consoles have more than enough pixel fillrate and CPU performance to do pretty much whatever you want in 2D at 480p.

Even 800 megapixel/s is enough to overdraw the entire screen 43 times a frame at 60 fps.

And what can we expect from 2D performance for next gen consoles?

Comparing 2D performance is pretty much pointless today.

 

[Brimstone]

What did Capcom do when they designed the Street Fighter 3 arcade hardware? Whats was so special about the hardware design CPS3 vs CPS2?

 

[Guden Oden]

Is that a rethorical question?

 

[Panajev2001a]

With the current set of consoles the 2D performance is limited by CPU horsepower and pixel fillrate right? With the PS2 having the greatest fillrate at 2.4 GPixels/Sec, does it have an edge on the others?

This generation, 2D performance is mainly limited by total system RAM, in which case the xbox wins by default.

You forget I-frame based compression .

 

[aaaaa00]

With the current set of consoles the 2D performance is limited by CPU horsepower and pixel fillrate right? With the PS2 having the greatest fillrate at 2.4 GPixels/Sec, does it have an edge on the others?

This generation, 2D performance is mainly limited by total system RAM, in which case the xbox wins by default.

You forget I-frame based compression .

First, I said "The more system RAM you have, the more art you can have loaded at once, everything else being equal."

Second, there's nothing stopping you from making a sophisticated art compression system on xbox for a 2D game.

I bet there's enough CPU left around to do this. Or maybe you can figure out some way to use the iDCT accelerator in the GPU (which probably serves roughly the same function as the IPU in the PS2).

 

[Murakami]

Or maybe you can figure out some way to use the iDCT accelerator in the GPU (which probably serves roughly the same function as the IPU in the PS2).

Ehm...there's not IDCT accelerator on the XBox GPU...only MC accelerator... :?

 

[aaaaa00]

Or maybe you can figure out some way to use the iDCT accelerator in the GPU (which probably serves roughly the same function as the IPU in the PS2).

Ehm...there's not IDCT accelerator on the XBox GPU...only MC accelerator... :?

Really? I thought iDCT was introduced in NV25/2A, maybe I'm misremembering.

Oh well.

 

[Murakami]

Or maybe you can figure out some way to use the iDCT accelerator in the GPU (which probably serves roughly the same function as the IPU in the PS2).

Ehm...there's not IDCT accelerator on the XBox GPU...only MC accelerator... :?

Really? I thought iDCT was introduced in NV25/2A, maybe I'm misremembering.

Oh well.

IDCT is only present in GeForce 4MX series, not TI...

 

[aaaaa00]

IDCT is only present in GeForce 4MX series, not TI...

PowerDVD disgrees with you:

http://www.gocyberlink.com/english/products/powerdvd/hardware_comp_list.jsp

Graphic Chipset and Hardware Motion Compenstation Support

NVIDIA
GeForce4 Ti4800 SE ***** Ti4600 ***** Ti4400 ***** Ti4200 *****
MX480SE ***** MX460 ***** MX440 ***** MX420 *****


D with Dual-View support
* with iDCT+MC support
** with iDCT+MC and Dual-View support
*** with MC support
**** with MC and Dual-View Support
***** with iDCT + MC and nView Support

I was going to write a little DXVA util to ask my GF4Ti what it supported, but this was a lot quicker.

 

[Murakami]

IDCT is only present in GeForce 4MX series, not TI...

PowerDVD disgrees with you:

http://www.gocyberlink.com/english/products/powerdvd/hardware_comp_list.jsp

Graphic Chipset and Hardware Motion Compenstation Support

NVIDIA
GeForce4 Ti4800 SE ***** Ti4600 ***** Ti4400 ***** Ti4200 *****
MX480SE ***** MX460 ***** MX440 ***** MX420 *****


D with Dual-View support
* with iDCT+MC support
** with iDCT+MC and Dual-View support
*** with MC support
**** with MC and Dual-View Support
***** with iDCT + MC and nView Support

I was going to write a little DXVA util to ask my GF4Ti what it supported, but this was a lot quicker.

nVidia presse releases about VPE disagree with PowerDVD...
It's better to test with WinDVD: play a movie (MPEG 2, of course) and check, in the information TAB, what kind of acceleration is in use...

 

[aaaaa00]

nVidia presse releases about VPE disagree with PowerDVD...
It's better to test with WinDVD: play a movie (MPEG 2, of course) and check, in the information TAB, what kind of acceleration is in use...

Ok, then. I guess the Ti doesn't have iDCT.

Anyway this doesn't preclude you from inventing some compression scheme.

 

[j^aws]

Well...I just hope sprites and parrallax scrolling never dissappear and Street Fighter always remains 2D! Let Capcom and Co Push 2D to HDTV res and explore other avenues that 2D could offer... 8)