ATI is the Summer King?

[Rookie]

Since NV30 delay to Christmas timeframe,It seems 3D crown will return to ATI,quote from Cnet:

"The Markham, Ontario-based company on Thursday will unveil the details of the Radeon 9700, a desktop graphics chip based on a new architecture that will provide greater realism when it comes to 3D images, according to sources.

The fastest versions of the new chips will offer considerably higher performance than Nvidia's current GeForce4 roster, giving ATI the edge with gamers as well as PC makers, analysts said. And even after Nvidia--which began to chip away at ATI's leading spot in graphics in 1999--comes out with its GeForce 5 in a few months, the competition between the two will remain close. "

IMHO,R300's real competitor is not NV30,it should be NV28,according to my source,R300 is only 15% faster that GF4 Ti 4600,So R300 just a summer king for a while,it does not have 100% power to defeat NV28,which ll annouce at Aug.

2002 year NO.1 seed is NV30...

 

[phynicle]

so it's thursday now eh???

 

[KimB]

Man, it's been set "to be released" tomorrow for what, three days now?

In all seriousness, though, I think the biggest potential problem for ATI is the rumored need for an external power supply. If this is true, I don't really see this card as being a very viable product for most people. It will be very hot, and rather expensive to make.

 

[phynicle]

hmmm the external power won't be much of a problem and if they can't achieve the rumored 315mhz part then i don't think cooling will be much of a problem considering it is a 0.15

 

[Randell]

Man, it's been set "to be released" tomorrow for what, three days now?

Nope, most peoples expectations were for today, but some thought today might be RV250 only.

In all seriousness, though, I think the biggest potential problem for ATI is the rumored need for an external power supply. If this is true, I don't really see this card as being a very viable product for most people. .

Why is that true? The V5 had a similar connector, that didnt make it non-viable. Geforce 1/2 cards had instability issues in cheaper, older mobo's, e.g. socket A, the V5 molex connector ensured that card didnt have these issues. Why are people so hung up on this?

At least if stability on 'cheap' mobo's is an issue, ATI have engineered a solution.

It will be very hot, and rather expensive to make.

The external connector is only rumoured to be on the ATI top of the range >300mhz part, so natch it will expensive. As for heat, well have you seen the size of the cooler on the leaked pics, & on the Gf4 range?

 

[Joe DeFuria]

In all seriousness, though, I think the biggest potential problem for ATI is the rumored need for an external power supply.

I don't see where the concern is. There have been no credible rumors of a "voodoo volts" type of external power supply, only a internal power plug for high-end models.

I don't see a supplemental power supply plug being any kind of detriement to the enthusiast market. On the other hand, pushing the limits of the AGP power supply like the original GeForce boards, and NOT supplying supplemental power, could be a major problem.

 

[maskrider]

In all seriousness, though, I think the biggest potential problem for ATI is the rumored need for an external power supply. If this is true, I don't really see this card as being a very viable product for most people. .

Why is that true? The V5 had a similar connector, that didnt make it non-viable. Geforce 1/2 cards had instability issues in cheaper, older mobo's, e.g. socket A, the V5 molex connector ensured that card didnt have these issues. Why are people so hung up on this?

At least if stability on 'cheap' mobo's is an issue, ATI have engineered a solution.

Exactly, I don't see why people are not comfortable with that, when a card need that much power, it will be better off getting it directly from the power supply (now just the internal one) for stability, as simple as that. The V5 has been rock stable all these years.

 

[iRC]

On the other hand, pushing the limits of the AGP power supply like the original GeForce boards, and NOT supplying supplemental power, could be a major problem.

If it also removes the need for extra power regulation and long boards (GeForce4) it removes the embarassment of not fitting in some motherboards...

 

[Doomtrooper]

Molex connector is GOOD, I don't know why people make a big deal about it

Does everyone have a powersupply in their case or is their PC powered by anti-matter fusion reactor ??

 

[phynicle]

nope mine's a fusion reactor
gotta keep that athlon happy u know

 

[Althornin]

Molex connector is GOOD, I don't know why people make a big deal about it

Does everyone have a powersupply in their case or is their PC powered by anti-matter fusion reactor ??

Even if it was, you'd ahve to have molex connetors to power your shit

 

[Snyder]

Well a molex adapter costs about 1-2€/$. I wouldn't be surprised if ATi even put one of these in the retail box.

BTW: What does molex mean? (I mean the word, I know the connector ;-) Haven't even heard the term until recently.

 

[RussSchultz]

Molex is a brand name. www.molex.com

 

[MuFu]

Molex is the name of the company that first made them, I think. :-\

MuFu.

 

[MuFu]

Yeah... wot he said.

MuFu.

 

[Mize]

so it's thursday now eh???

AFAIK, the release is tonight in the UK and tomorrow world-wide.

Mize

 

[Oratius]

so it's thursday now eh???

I think yes:
http://www.hwzone.it/html/news.php?id=3462

"Ormai da parecchi giorni ho i dati delle nuove GPU di ATi, la R300 e la RV250."

By now it's several days that i've data on th new GPU of ATI, th R300 and RV250

"ATi ha pregato la stampa specializzata di non pubblicare nulla fino al giorno 18 luglio, cioè domani."

Translation: ATI has prayed qualified press not to publish anything till 18 july

 

[KimB]

The external connector is only rumoured to be on the ATI top of the range >300mhz part, so natch it will expensive. As for heat, well have you seen the size of the cooler on the leaked pics, & on the Gf4 range?

For all intents and purposes, power consumption=heat dissipation (Yes, there is some infrared radiation, but that is quickly absorbed by other components in a closed case, meaning it is still effectively heat dissipation).

Therefore, if a board requires lots of power, it puts out lots of heat.

The size or complexity of the cooling implementation has nothing to do with the equation (ex. ATI's chips may be made to handle higher operating temperatures, and so don't need to be kept as cool).

Update:

Yes, if the power connector is just a backup in case your particular motherboard doesn't meet AGP specs, then it's a good thing. However, if the board actually needs more power than the AGP specs, then it's definitely a bad thing.

 

[Nagorak]

IMHO,R300's real competitor is not NV30,it should be NV28,according to my source,R300 is only 15% faster that GF4 Ti 4600,So R300 just a summer king for a while,it does not have 100% power to defeat NV28,which ll annouce at Aug.

100% power according to whom? If you're basing both numbers off of Nvidia hype, then that hardly proves anything (like they'd be honest). Geez, the card isn't even out yet and some people are already trying to bury it.

ATi R300: 107m transistors
NV30: 120m transistors

Anyone who thinks they're going to be vastly different is greatly mistaken, IMO. And if I remember the original Radeon had more transistors than the GF2, but that didn't make it faster.

 

[KimB]

ATi R300: 107m transistors
NV30: 120m transistors

Anyone who thinks they're going to be vastly different is greatly mistaken, IMO. And if I remember the original Radeon had more transistors than the GF2, but that didn't make it faster.

You forgot to mention the smaller die process.

Smaller die process means:

1. Cheaper to manufacture in the long-run (basically means nVidia will have an easier time making money off of the NV30 than ATI can off of R300...won't mean a whole lot for price to the consumer)
2. Higher clock speeds.
3. Lower heat dissipation/power consumption.

The additional transistors won't double performance or anything of the sort, I'm sure, but may well give it many features that ATI simply won't have. Also, the later release date means faster memory will be available, and the .13 micron process may well allow for significantly higher clockspeeds, which could possibly make the NV30 perform quite a bit better.