ATI Filtering Questions

[jvd]

I think it's far from a witch hunt and can only lead to things getting better when it comes to honesty from IHV's. And if it get's worse, well, then there's probably a reason for it.

I'm sorry adding and subtracting images isn't a witch hunt ?

 

[MuFu]

I think it's far from a witch hunt and can only lead to things getting better when it comes to honesty from IHV's. And if it get's worse, well, then there's probably a reason for it.

I'm sorry adding and subtracting images isn't a witch hunt ?

Doesn't look like you have to add & subtract here:

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=301630#301630

 

[jvd]

I think it's far from a witch hunt and can only lead to things getting better when it comes to honesty from IHV's. And if it get's worse, well, then there's probably a reason for it.

I'm sorry adding and subtracting images isn't a witch hunt ?

Doesn't look like you have to add & subtract here:

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=301630#301630

don't worry . I will be posting my videos later tonight to shed light on the subject .

 

[digitalwanderer]

what a crock the image on my x800pro sux all the shimmering and banding.. its the worseIQ ever, just AS bad as my 9700pro,AIW9600pro, and my 9800xt. ATI has just stayed the same DAMM them! Oh ya if i look real hard i can get a line on the map... just like all the other cards...... BUT I DOO LUVE 1600/1200 6aa!! whoo whoo.

Ok, you got me!

I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing it. Maybe I haven't read the right article or saw the right pictures, but I'm just not seeing any image change in any games from ATi's tryllinear....thus why I don't get it.

 

[tEd]

x800 does texture stage optimization when doing AF. No matter whether you use ingame AF or set it ingame what you get with the x800 is first stage brilinear and >stage0 you get something between brilinear an bilinear.I think there so more thing happenig as the filtering behavior is sometimes very wierd and but as of yet i don't know exactly what it is. Anyway this leads to visual problems mainly in games which have problems which such texture optimization as we already seen when using quality AF on r9700/9800.

It often shows as texture shimmering or/and light mipmap banding as i already showed in the mp2 vids. You can disable those AF optimizations with a reg tweak you can also disable brilinear. Disabling the AF texture stage optimizations will get rid of all visual problems i mentioned above and the filtering looks the same as on a r9700/9800. Note it only applies to AF , using plain trilinear/brilinear don't have the texture stage optimizations applied

 

[jvd]

The results of our texture filtering tests look somewhat dramatic. In practice, meaning in normal games, you'd have to keep your eyes peeled to spot the differences between the individual cards and Refrast. From this perspective, adaptive filtering is more or less legitimate, since the user gets much better performance with almost optimal image quality. Nonetheless we would prefer that NVIDIA and ATi left it up to the user to decide whether or not to use these optimizations. Neither company has an advantage when anisotropic filtering is enabled - and both don't render "correctly," at least if you take Refrast as your point of reference. In the last generation of cards, it made sense that adaptive filtering was the only option. But the new X800 and GF6800 should be fast enough to offer optional non-adaptive methods.

no problems they say ? naaa everyone knows there is horrible image quality problems

Shader Quality - FarCry

The results of the shader quality test remain unchanged from our last test. The image quality of the GeForce 6800 Ultra did not improve with the newer driver. Probably, this won't change until the next game patch. The image quality of the X800 cards is practically identical to that of the Radeon 9800XT - impeccable.

Practly identical to that of the 9800xt ? No that can't be .

 

[MuFu]

I think it's far from a witch hunt and can only lead to things getting better when it comes to honesty from IHV's. And if it get's worse, well, then there's probably a reason for it.

I'm sorry adding and subtracting images isn't a witch hunt ?

Doesn't look like you have to add & subtract here:

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=301630#301630

don't worry . I will be posting my videos later tonight to shed light on the subject .

It's going to be quite difficult to take any "evidence" you post at face value though. Seems like you've already made your mind up!

Not to say that Grestorn's videos are entirely conclusive, of course...

 

[karlotta]

what a crock the image on my x800pro sux all the shimmering and banding.. its the worseIQ ever, just AS bad as my 9700pro,AIW9600pro, and my 9800xt. ATI has just stayed the same DAMM them! Oh ya if i look real hard i can get a line on the map... just like all the other cards...... BUT I DOO LUVE 1600/1200 6aa!! whoo whoo.

Ok, you got me!

I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing it. Maybe I haven't read the right article or saw the right pictures, but I'm just not seeing any image change in any games from ATi's tryllinear....thus why I don't get it.

Its sarcasam. Was j/k. I dont realy notice it at all. If i pick apart any image then it it can be found..some... lil ity bit... ted says its bad tho so diff opinions. It is not brilliner like nv3x... nomater what some ppl have said. The real issue is if ya look real hard and find it, then your f####d because then thats all you will notice. I have nodoubt it will be a reg tweak to set full tri at the end of summer... just lil birdies flying around my head. Untill everybody buys a X800 and sees whta is or isnt ... you will have some of the clowns picking apart somthing they have no clue about.

 

[jvd]

It's going to be quite difficult to take any "evidence" you post at face value though. Seems like you've already made your mind up!

Not to say that Grestorn's videos are entirely conclusive, of course...

of course you shouldn't take my videos with face value. After all i bought an x800pro. But i will post a video showing my output from my sisters x800pro. If that isn't the same as others thats because i'm not playing with gamma / load or registry hacks .

 

[cthellis42]

Was it, who are you talking about then ?

I'm mainly talking about message board folk (here and at others, like [H], nVnews, Rage3D, Tom's, Anand's...) who are fine with "explaning away" and looking at the broad picture in one case, but throwing down the gauntlet in another, without noting the inter-connections. (Or ignoring all levels of severity and looking just at blacks and whites.)

On the reviewer/tech-site end it's not really clear-cut, but then there are usually weird scatterings of articles and different article-writers. You don't see as much direct contradiction since they're usually writing long articles about an issue, but you can still tell a bit from the "who speaks, when" angle, and in what obvious comparisons are lacking.

 

[Bjorn]

Was it, who are you talking about then ?

I'm mainly talking about message board folk (here and at others, like [H], nVnews, Rage3D, Tom's, Anand's...) who are fine with "explaning away" and looking at the broad picture in one case, but throwing down the gauntlet in another, without noting the inter-connections. (Or ignoring all levels of severity and looking just at blacks and whites.)

Well, i must say that i don't remember that there were that many that looked away when Nvidia introduced "brilinear". Especially not when they started to force it.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Well, i must say that i don't remember that there were that many that looked away when Nvidia introduced "brilinear". Especially not when they started to force it.

You got a really lousy memory then Bjorn.

 

[Sabastian]

Well, i must say that i don't remember that there were that many that looked away when Nvidia introduced "brilinear". Especially not when they started to force it.

I have been tired of the cheating allegations for nearly a friggin year now. Give me screen shots showing significant disparities in IQ and I'll cry foul right along with you. With all the fucking bullshit that has been raised around the filtering optimizations you'd think we were dealing with another Quincunx blur filter. But here take a look at these screens and tell me everything has gone amok..

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread...hreadid=91628&perpage=10&pagenumber=1

I'm just tired of the whole cheating debacle. Both IHV's are doing it and it doesn't appear anyone is backing down from the trend. ATi shouldn't be obliged to hold some sort of moral high ground when their primary competition refuses to remove their cheats.

 

[CarstenS]

Both IHV's are doing it and it doesn't appear anyone is backing down from the trend. ATi shouldn't be obliged to hold some sort of moral high ground when their primary competition refuses to remove their cheats.

Do they? I wouldn't be surprised if the next official ForceWare-driver will support real trilinear Filtering on all cards, as does the leaked 61.32 as of now.

 

[Sabastian]

Both IHV's are doing it and it doesn't appear anyone is backing down from the trend. ATi shouldn't be obliged to hold some sort of moral high ground when their primary competition refuses to remove their cheats.

Do they? I wouldn't be surprised if the next official ForceWare-driver will support real trilinear Filtering on all cards, as does the leaked 61.32 as of now.

I'll believe it when I see it. But that doesn't matter anymore. If we can't see any significant disparities in IQ and the optimization is not app specific then I don't give a flying f**k anymore. I just don't give a dam that much. I'll draw the line where IQ disparity is significantly degraded. If I have a button in my driver that gives me full triliner or optimized triliner but with no noticeable IQ disparities.. guess which one I will choose in game. It's a no brainer.

 

[digitalwanderer]

But doesn't the fact that both companies have added on/off switches for it kind of make the whole point moot? :|

 

[christoph]

But doesn't the fact that both companies have added on/off switches for it kind of make the whole point moot? :|

computerbase claims to have found the reg settings which a user can manually add/alter on ati's side, in regards to both tri+af. the point is moot though