Asking graphical artists - How difficult is it to make Forza motorsport look as good, or better, as GT7?

Z

ZebMacahan

Newcomer
It seems to me that Forza has more track detail, more vegetation etc. I do think that GT7 almost always look better though.
I think some reasons for this is:

*Colors look better and more livlier in GT7. Colors in Forza are quite desaturated.
*Skies look way better in GT7. Are GT7 using catpured HDRI´s while Forzas is procedural?
*Does Forza do something different when it comes to color mapping?
*Car shaders looking very flat in Forza.
*Better, more realistic, lighting and lighting balance. For instance the tail lights pop alot more in GT7 which is both more aesthetically pleasing and more realistic.

Do you agree with this, and am I missing something?

How difficult would it be to make Forza look better (IMO more like GT7), the assets are allready there, right?
 
ZebMacahan said:
It seems to me that Forza has more track detail, more vegetation etc. I do think that GT7 almost always look better though.
I think some reasons for this is:

*Colors look better and more livlier in GT7. Colors in Forza are quite desaturated.
*Skies look way better in GT7. Are GT7 using catpured HDRI´s while Forzas is procedural?
*Does Forza do something different when it comes to color mapping?
*Car shaders looking very flat in Forza.
*Better, more realistic, lighting and lighting balance. For instance the tail lights pop alot more in GT7 which is both more aesthetically pleasing and more realistic.

Do you agree with this, and am I missing something?

How difficult would it be to make Forza look better (IMO more like GT7), the assets are allready there, right?
Click to expand...
Forza Motorsport can look very good, there are conditions when it looks as good or even better than GT7. The appearance of the game changes depending on the time of day and weather conditions. It is really true that when playing with normal car colors under a cloudless sky, the colors are quite dull. In this regard, GT7 is better, because the surfaces are always more metallic, probably because the game is set up that way, the reflection and lighting of the cars should be realistic in all conditions.

However, there is also a realistic way in Forza. For example, as soon as we set a cloudy sky or many objects are reflected on the car, e.g. at the starting line of Hakone or in the car pit before every race, the effect is much more realistic. In other words, it's all a matter of illumination.

The same is true for e.g. rainy lighting conditions, where the game is much more photorealistic. Here is a photo to illustrate this:
photostudio_1707751864285.jpg

However, the cars can be improved a lot with realistic metallic paint in the paint menu of the game. Here, it is worth experimenting with two-tone polish and metal flake colors, and in this way we can achieve a much shinier and more realistic effect. I'll show you pictures of this later.
 
ZebMacahan said:
It seems to me that Forza has more track detail, more vegetation etc. I do think that GT7 almost always look better though.
I think some reasons for this is:

*Colors look better and more livlier in GT7. Colors in Forza are quite desaturated.
*Skies look way better in GT7. Are GT7 using catpured HDRI´s while Forzas is procedural?
*Does Forza do something different when it comes to color mapping?
*Car shaders looking very flat in Forza.
*Better, more realistic, lighting and lighting balance. For instance the tail lights pop alot more in GT7 which is both more aesthetically pleasing and more realistic.

Do you agree with this, and am I missing something?

How difficult would it be to make Forza look better (IMO more like GT7), the assets are allready there, right?
Click to expand...
Polyphony had a presentation on how they handle lighting and the sky. It is a complex implementation mimicking real life properties. I wish I could find it but don't have the time. It isn't just simply slapping an HDRI.
 
Nesh said:
Polyphony had a presentation on how they handle lighting and the sky. It is a complex implementation mimicking real life properties. I wish I could find it but don't have the time. It isn't just simply slapping an HDRI.
Click to expand...
Is this the one?

www.gdcvault.com

Advanced Graphics Summit: Realistic Real-Time Sky Dome Rendering in 'Gran Turismo 7'

Gran Turismo 7 includes the feature of dynamic time and weather changes to create a more realistic driving experience and the excitement of dramatic racing action. To achieve this, the team at Polyphony Digital implemented a new sky dome rendering...
www.gdcvault.com www.gdcvault.com

Advanced Graphics Summit: Realistic Real-Time Sky Dome Rendering in 'Gran Turismo 7'
 
Clouds in Forza change procedurally and realistically. Although the clouds could have a higher resolution, this effect is still very spectacular. No two skies are the same, and the lights also filter through the clouds in real time, illuminating each section of the track in different ways. This is the strength of Motorsport's visuals. Of course, this alone does not solve the fact that the game should always be photorealistic. But, I think the developers will still improve the graphics here. As far as I know, the next Update (tomorrow?) will also include a new lighting for the cars.
 
Newguy said:
Is this the one?

www.gdcvault.com

Advanced Graphics Summit: Realistic Real-Time Sky Dome Rendering in 'Gran Turismo 7'

Gran Turismo 7 includes the feature of dynamic time and weather changes to create a more realistic driving experience and the excitement of dramatic racing action. To achieve this, the team at Polyphony Digital implemented a new sky dome rendering...
www.gdcvault.com www.gdcvault.com

Advanced Graphics Summit: Realistic Real-Time Sky Dome Rendering in 'Gran Turismo 7'
Click to expand...
Yes I believe it's this one
 
QPlayer said:
Forza Motorsport can look very good, there are conditions when it looks as good or even better than GT7. The appearance of the game changes depending on the time of day and weather conditions. It is really true that when playing with normal car colors under a cloudless sky, the colors are quite dull. In this regard, GT7 is better, because the surfaces are always more metallic, probably because the game is set up that way, the reflection and lighting of the cars should be realistic in all conditions.

However, there is also a realistic way in Forza. For example, as soon as we set a cloudy sky or many objects are reflected on the car, e.g. at the starting line of Hakone or in the car pit before every race, the effect is much more realistic. In other words, it's all a matter of illumination.

The same is true for e.g. rainy lighting conditions, where the game is much more photorealistic. Here is a photo to illustrate this:
View attachment 10821

However, the cars can be improved a lot with realistic metallic paint in the paint menu of the game. Here, it is worth experimenting with two-tone polish and metal flake colors, and in this way we can achieve a much shinier and more realistic effect. I'll show you pictures of this later.
Click to expand...

Yes, Forza does look great under certain circumstances.
I think that in DFs comparison they were comparing the wet road effects with real life and concluded that even though Forza looked more dashing with shinier reflections GTs more subdued look were closer to real life. I haven compared this myself though. Maybe wet roads under certain circumstances look more like Forzas, and sometimes more like GT?
 
QPlayer said:
Clouds in Forza change procedurally and realistically. Although the clouds could have a higher resolution, this effect is still very spectacular. No two skies are the same, and the lights also filter through the clouds in real time, illuminating each section of the track in different ways. This is the strength of Motorsport's visuals. Of course, this alone does not solve the fact that the game should always be photorealistic. But, I think the developers will still improve the graphics here. As far as I know, the next Update (tomorrow?) will also include a new lighting for the cars.
Click to expand...

I played a little Forza yesterday. Is it me, or does the skies just look better in GT? Just more colorful and detailed and real?
 
Nesh said:
Polyphony had a presentation on how they handle lighting and the sky. It is a complex implementation mimicking real life properties. I wish I could find it but don't have the time. It isn't just simply slapping an HDRI.
Click to expand...

Do you know how their lighting is different from Forzas?
 
good realistic lighting is key for car games, be it real time or baked, they try to achieve this since GT4.
Look at CP77 on consoles with the exact same details and assets as PC, but with pathtracing it looks like a different game.

And since this year marks the 10th anniversary of Driveclub...

 
Last edited:
QPlayer said:
Clouds in Forza change procedurally and realistically. Although the clouds could have a higher resolution, this effect is still very spectacular. No two skies are the same, and the lights also filter through the clouds in real time, illuminating each section of the track in different ways. This is the strength of Motorsport's visuals. Of course, this alone does not solve the fact that the game should always be photorealistic. But, I think the developers will still improve the graphics here. As far as I know, the next Update (tomorrow?) will also include a new lighting for the cars.
Click to expand...

The clouds in Forza actually remain the same overall shape and even get reused across multiple tracks. The edges may have varying wisps, but there's no fully procedural, no cloud patterns are ever the same, like in GT7

GBoWdylXEAAro4U


https://imgur.com/sRGJUH7
 
Karamazov said:
good realistic lighting is key for car games, be it real time or baked, they try to achieve this since GT4.
Look at CP77 on consoles with the exact same details and assets as PC, but with pathtracing it looks like a different game.

And since this year marks the 10th anniversary of Driveclub...

Click to expand...

I never played driveclub, but it still looks amazing. I think it looks way better than the new Forza.
 
vspectra said:
The clouds in Forza actually remain the same overall shape and even get reused across multiple tracks. The edges may have varying wisps, but there's no fully procedural, no cloud patterns are ever the same, like in GT7

GBoWdylXEAAro4U


https://imgur.com/sRGJUH7
Click to expand...
In Forza, every corner of the tracks is illuminated by the sun in real time depending on the position of the clouds. This makes the graphic experience much more technically and visually realistic.
 
QPlayer said:
In Forza, every corner of the tracks is illuminated by the sun in real time depending on the position of the clouds. This makes the graphic experience much more technically and visually realistic.
Click to expand...
More technically and visually realistic than what?
 
Forza has real-time lighting effects, not only the shadows of the clouds change, GT only changes the shadows of the clouds. The difference is quite spectacular. The two photos were taken two minutes apart and this is not the position of the sun but the play of light filtering through the clouds:

photostudio_1708099029276.jpgphotostudio_1708099120987.jpg
 
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