Aquamark 3 in B3D Reviews

What title to remove in favour of Aquamark3 for next batch of reviews...?

  • Tomb Raider: Angel Of Darkness (DX9)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • UT2003 (DX7/8)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Wolfenstein: ET (OGL)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Serious Sam: Second Encounter (OGL)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    116

Dave Baumann

Gamerscore Wh...
Moderator
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OK, I want your opinions on what I should drop in favour of Aquamark 3 in the next batch of reviews.

Presently I'm using:

Splinter Cell
Tomb Raider
UT2003
Wolfenstein: ET
Serious Sam: Second encounter.

I kinda want to keep the split of 3 DX and 2 GL titles, although I also know that these are getting a bit creaky now.

Vote and give opinions...
 
OGL guy has a point, but I almost laugh when I see a review that stil uses Serious Sam....
 
micron said:
OGL guy has a point, but I almost laugh when I see a review that stil uses Serious Sam....

It's still lightyears apart from any q3a engine based game out there.
 
UT2003 should be dropped. Both the GL games also. Don't know about our audience but personally if there are no good and new GL games, there should be none. Absense of GL testing and DX-only results does not invalidate the review of a product IMO.

Regarding Splinter Cell and AA : I think many folks play certain games without AA even if a video card has the power. For this particular game, perhaps the focus should then be only at higher resolutions since rez and AA have one thing in common (fillrate). A simplistic view of course but Splinter Cell looks too gorgeous to be overlooked just because of an API (DX8) limitation.

Personally, in time, HL2 and DOOM3 should suffice in reviews :) :LOL:
 
Reverend said:
Regarding Splinter Cell and AA : I think many folks play certain games without AA even if a video card has the power. For this particular game, perhaps the focus should then be only at higher resolutions since rez and AA have one thing in common (fillrate). A simplistic view of course but Splinter Cell looks too gorgeous to be overlooked just because of an API (DX8) limitation.
High rez and AA don't have "fillrate in common" if you're using multisampling :)

In general, 1024x768 with 4x MSAA is a lot more efficient than 2048x1576 without AA.
 
UT2003 should be dropped. Both the GL games also. Don't know about our audience but personally if there are no good and new GL games, there should be none. Absense of GL testing and DX-only results does not invalidate the review of a product IMO.

Dunno maybe you kept them that long based on their popularity? Let's face it Aquamark3 is and remains for the time being just another synthetic benchmark until a game based on it's engine gets released (or did I miss something?).

Aquanox was soooo exiting after all.....*runs*

***edit:

Oooops forgot what I actually wanted to say: how about using some recent sims (either racing/flight/space whatever) instead of the above listed? I know the majority of those are CPU bound, but UT2k3 f.e. isn't? :rolleyes:
 
1) Soldier of Fortune:2 engine actually gives options for ATI or Nvidia extensions for OGL.

2) Some good new demos of upcoming games could be looked at:

Silver Engine Powered SAVAGE: The Battle for Newerth

RENDERING
—OpenGL based rendering engine optimized for hardware T&L
—Hierarchal skeletal animation and deformation system
—Incredibly realistic grass rendering effects
—Moving cloud layer casts shadows on the entire world
—Dynamic time of day changing during the course of a game
—Particle effects
—Lens Flares
—Flexible and highly optimized terrain renderer, utilizing triangle strips, multiple texture layers, unique per-tile texturing, and allowing real-time deformation

05.jpg

13.jpg


http://www.s2games.com/savage/screenshots/lm_act/index.html

Demo:

http://www.3dgamers.com/dl/games/savage/savagedemoinstaller.exe.html

Benchmark mode: Unknown
 
I look at what they offer for analysis, and information offered to the reader:

  • Splinter Cell
    Extensive shader utilization, and a known render to texture stress (as I understand the shadow technique common to all cards).
  • Tomb Raider
    Extensive PS 2.0 utilization, and an opportunity for contrast between Cg and HLSL on nVidia cards until Cg is no longer a factor. Some concern for future patches though :-? , so being able to evaluate HLSL improvements and having game issues addressed is an open question.
  • UT2003
    Extensive stress of DX 7 class performance, as far as bandwidh, fillrate, AF quality/multiple texture layer evaluation. Still seems quite informative to me, especially with new vendors offering cards with unknown characteristics. Also, it seems a waste that no further advantage was taken of the extensive benchmarking data output it offers (this should somewhat go for Splinter Cell as well, I think?).
  • :arrow: Wolfenstein: ET
    OpenGL performance evaluation. (This is the one I think should go...I somewhat agree that balancing OpenGL and Direct3D just for the sake of maintaining a specific count is not important...some useful and informative representation is all that seems important to me).
  • SS:SE
    OpenGL performance evaluation, seemingly more finely controlled than Quake III engine games IMO. Also, DX/OGL contrast opportunities along with UT 2k3...this seems an interesting opportunity for AF quality analysis. What counts against it is that it might not be stressful enough, and has been a known "benchmark target" for a very long time.
    I actually think Savage, as Doom brought up, might be worth looking at to replace it, since UT 2k3 would still offer the API contrast opportunity. Whether it will be a good benchmark or not remains to be seen, I think.

My question for Aquanox 3, as a graphics card benchmark (this "Synthetics are worthless" mantra is disturbing to me, Ailuros :-? .... do you have another complaint against it? ) is I don't know of any unique PS 2.0 effects it offers. I know it has "2.0 version" shaders, but my impression of the usage is "implementing the same thing in differing shader versions".
This doesn't seem stressful to me, and (as far as I understand) leaves the opportunity for misrepresentation of "DX version" wide open. OTOH, it also seems uniquely suited as a "same workload" benchmark, as long as it isn't presumed to represent "DX 9" (IOW, I don't think this would be a problem in an OpenGL equivalent...which makes my issue one of presentation, not usage). If my understanding is correct, I think this actually recommends it as a unique perspective as a graphics card benchmark, as long as whatever these shader characteristics might be are represented accurately.
Of course, this is just based on my informal understanding and what I've noticed (or not noticed) in screenshots so far, and may be incorrect...evaluate accordingly.
 
I think this is worth a moment to reflect on.
Out of the literally many hundreds of games on dealers shelves this instant, only very few of them can be even considered for benchmarking graphics cards. And it seems fewer still or even none of them can be considered "good" for this purpose.
This has several implications.
(Which may not be suitable to this thread. Or even this site.)
 
personally I would rather not see Aquamark 3 in reviews, to easy of a target for optimisations. I would like to see some more unusual games to be used like someone above said some sim's would be nice. I would also like to see savage benchmarked!
 
I don't care much for AM3 at the moment since it seems that it's already being targeted for optimization. But if something has to go, I vote for either WolfensteinET or Serious Sam.
 
Id prefer not to have it as aquaxnox (the games) sucks and presently there seems to be too much optimization for this benchmark.

I would if anything for for something like halo

My fav would be homeworld 2 but I doubt that has much worth for benchmarking (I just play it alot)
 
1. Can you record a custom AM3 demo?
2. Can you be certain which path/shaders are issued/executed? Is it then an "apples-apples" comparison? AM3 already auto-optimizes code depending on HW. Does it matter?
 
Personally I think that you shouldn't use AM3 too much, something like you use 3DMark03 for. Only for quick comparation as results tend to be/ or will be heavily optimised.

You could ditch Wolfenstein as it is really ancient technology and Quake3 engine has lived it's life. Unfortunately SS2 is same story (getting too old), but at least it has nice histograms that can be very informative.

Keeping Tomb Rider AOD is a must, at least untily another game with quite heavy PS 2.0 usage arrives, keep UT2K3 as now it is a defacto standard for testing (like Quake3 was). For Splinter Cell I don't have anythnig for or against it, as I haven't seen it in action.

You could also bring more syntetic tests like ShaderMark, RightMark and MDolenc fill-rate tester? They tend to let you understand architecture better.

Zvekan
 
I chose to remove Serious Sam SE. The current batch of cards is strong enough to run the game more than enormously acceptable and thus provides no meaning anymore. Just like Quake 3 benchmarks nowadays.
 
Serious Sam uses multitexturing far more extensively than Wolfentstein and has more refined benchmarking tools. Serious Sam stresses multitexturing performance and Wolfenstein stresses what?
 
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