DavidGraham
Veteran
CPU scaling is excellent, GPU scaling not so much, oh and the 3080Ti is several times faster than the M1 Ultra.
Apple is an existential threat to the PC
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What does that mean, you pair it with a fast CPU and system and it's several times faster than a Mac Studio?
Or faster in GPU tasks?
Or benchmarks like FLOPS?
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
They will but you can be certain that most of Apple's near-future GPU improvements will be focussed on pro app performance. Apple are not architecting M1 (and probably not M2) to run DirectX, OpenGL or Vulkan better.
That's not to say they aren't great for a variety of games, I much prefer to play games like Stellaris, Civlization and Rome Remastered on the Mac simply because it's much easier to game, sleep, wake, resume, switch to other apps, on macOS than on Windows. And my Windows laptop is an ASUS Zephyrus G14. It's just the ease which Apple allow sliding between apps in their OS and their OS seems much "happier" sleep/resuming games than Windows. That is really hit and miss on Windows for reasons I don't understand.
Isn't that a matter of committing a lot of silicon?
The 3080 Ti is a $1200 card which is using more die area and transistors than whatever cores are in the M1 Ultra?
Seems like the market for Mac Studio would be far different than the market for GPUs like the 3080 Ti, which is for hardcore gaming, crypto, some high end rendering, etc.?
I'm not necessarily saying that they should try to compete with a 3090 ti, though they do have a mac pro coming and it will only be successfull if they have very strong gpu performance. What they do need is better scaling of gpu performance when you jump between m1, m1 pro, m1 ultra.
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
I agree, but Apple aren't Nvidia and AMD and they aren't needing to provide an array of GPU performance options, sometimes questionably and arguably unnecessary.
E.g. there is considerable performance bleed across Nvidia's many variations of xx50, xx60, xx70, xx80 and xx90 GPUs with some lower-numbered configurations outperforming high-numbered configurations which does little to add clarity, and can depend on the CPU driving the GPU, the bus configuration, the amount of local RAM and the clock speeds. Some of this is more about branding than technology. It's all a bit crap.
Apple's situation is a long way from perfect but it could be a lot worse.
I have a G15 with 3070m, compared it to a family members m1 pro 16. I wouldn't want to trade it for gaming purposes thats for sure, not even light gaming. Windows 11 with its latest updates is doing fantastic too.
A 3080/alder lake combo is a very compotent creator setup too.
Flappy Pannus
Veteran
Looks like we'll have another fully native M1 game to compare performance against the PC soon. Today's WWDC revealed that RE:Village is coming to the Mac later this year, utilizing the Metal 3 API and also takes advantage of Apple's version of something akin to FSR 2.0, so that an M1 Air can get 60fps at "1080p" using temporal upscaling, and Mac Studio can run native 4k 60+. Still somewhat annoying there is no DLSS/FSR 2.0 in Re:Village PC except for the Interlaced mode, which while certainly better than past implementations is pretty weak, would be interesting to compare how Apple's implementation fares in the same game otherwise.
Metal 3 also apparently has something akin to DirectStorage. Being just a presentation though no real details atm.
Metal 3 also apparently has something akin to DirectStorage. Being just a presentation though no real details atm.
I don't think they talked about the performance whatsoever. They only talked about resolutions and their upscaling tech. From what I saw the clips they showed of no man's sky and RE8 were really bad and the image quality was not good tbh. RE8 looked like it was running on lower settings. Their upscaling tech is a spatial tech just like DLSS 1.0 and FSR 1.0.
I'm going to guess it will remain mostly a total shitshow until Apple releases its own console, that's the most surefire way to get good support.
I think we're close to the point where treating a tiler as an immediate mode renderer will become untenable. Engines will have to go tile native.
I think we're close to the point where treating a tiler as an immediate mode renderer will become untenable. Engines will have to go tile native.
Flappy Pannus
Veteran
I really wouldn't judge image quality from a 1080p webstream, a little premature to judge what settings it's using atm. We also have no idea what system they were running it on.
I'm just saying it's good that we'll have a modern, native title to compare gaming performance outside of Shadow of the Tomb Raider (which isn't fully native).
Yeah listening to it again it's not entirely clear - the presenter says it works by applying 'spatial upscaling and temporal anti-aliasing'. That could mean just spatial and using the game's existing AA, but a little odd that they would mention how TAA is part of it - spatial doesn't care about the AA method. If it was purely spatial why also would it need developer specific support?
And DLSS 1.0 was spatial?
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DLSS 1 was a temporal solution, not spatial.
No. It was a spatial solution and that's why nvidia changed it in 2.0 to a temporal solution.
Completely different than what my mind remembers, as I always thought of it as a TAA replacement, including the temporal component.
Ehm, the API documentation says... both?
The way they described it in their video is different than the documentation. There they said spatial upscaling with TAA. No mention of Temporal upscaling.
Flappy Pannus
Veteran
The way they describe it in the documentation is more expansive than a keynote video, as one would expect. Like I said, there would be no reason to mention TAA as a requirement for spatial upscaling at all. Entirely reasonable to say "Well we'll see when this is explained in more detail then I guess" than steadfastly declaring what the the implementation is based on a promotional video intended for a layman.
