Anyone know the cost difference between brd discs and dvd?

[ralexand]

How much would it cost a ps3 developer to use a blue ray disc over using a regular dvd format?

 

[-NakedZ-]

When you say "regular" DVD, do you mean single layer or double layer? I would also like to know.

- Z

 

[Nicked]

Well the BRD association believe when produced at comparable volumes it will be within 10% of DVD production costs.

 

[Shrike_Priest]

According to blu-raydisc.com, 10% more than a regular DVD. Although it isn't specified whether it's dual or single disc, I think it's safe to assume it's a single-layer BRD being compared to a dual layer DVD.

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_information/Section-13577/Index.html

 

[ralexand]

According to blu-raydisc.com, 10% more than a regular DVD. Although it isn't specified whether it's dual or single disc, I think it's safe to assume it's a single-layer BRD being compared to a dual layer DVD.

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_information/Section-13577/Index.html

Thanks for the info, so I assume it adds 10% to the media cost vs. a regular dvd so developers will be deciding between the large additional cost of multidisc, cutting back on game assets/higher compression level, or the small additional cost of brd media.

 

[NavNucST3]

The last I checked the consumer price was $26/disc (for a recordable). But again, thats for us as consumers, no clue as to what devs pay for standard bd-rom. But from a BDA pdf, "...Degussa, ... , projects a single-digit Euro cents per-disc cost at launch.". It also goes on to say they are targeting 3 second cycle times, which probably means they are still around the 5-6 second cycle time, not sure though.

I am really really hoping for an hd-dvd coupon in my x360, then I can pick up a bd-rom for the computer and I should have my movies covered. Sorry, BDA but as it stands now hd-dvd has the movies I want....

 

[cthellis42]

No. That is both the problem and the source of so much contention. There's so much sway that anyone can talk up whatever side they want--and so they do.

 

[aaaaa00]

According to blu-raydisc.com, 10% more than a regular DVD.

Not right now, not even close. Maybe in a year or two, and I'd lay significant odds that it won't happen even then.

 

[aaaaa00]

But from a BDA pdf, "...Degussa, ... , projects a single-digit Euro cents per-disc cost at launch."

My understanding is that this figure is just for one particular part of the fabrication process, not the whole disc.

I have heard no estimates for BRD single layer even remotely close to "single-digit Euro cents per-disc", especially not at launch, let alone 5 years from now.

I'm pretty sure DVD doesn't get to "single-digit Euro cents per-disc" and they've had a decade to perfect the manufacturing process.

 

[one]

I'm pretty sure DVD doesn't get to "single-digit Euro cents per-disc" and they've had a decade to perfect the manufacturing process.

Is it your personal impression or do you have any backup? AFAIK cheap DVD discs shipped from Taiwan are sold for under $0.5 per disc today.

 

[Wicked_Vengence]

Part of the issue of cost here is re-tooling plants. A standard DVD uses .6mm covers (I think) while the BR-DVD uses .1mm. There will be a HUGE cost to retool plants so that they can press the new disks. As such, there will be limited plants, (probably) limited number of disks available and cost alot initially.

 

[aaaaa00]

I'm pretty sure DVD doesn't get to "single-digit Euro cents per-disc" and they've had a decade to perfect the manufacturing process.

Is it your personal impression or do you have any backup? AFAIK cheap DVD discs shipped from Taiwan are sold for under $0.5 per disc today.

My understanding is that dual layer DVD pressed media runs around $0.50-0.70. This info could be old/wrong though.

Dual layer HD DVD is currently running maybe 10% more $, in the real world with real production facilities (with 3.5 second cycle times and 90+% yield), today.

My understanding is also that single layer BD ROM is currently running at several bucks a disc, with far worse cycle times and production yields, which means it's completely non-competitive with HD DVD, and nowhere close to 10% of DVD in terms of unit cost. This info could also be old/wrong.

If you have a subscription to this industry journal ($1200) you can probably find this stuff in a back issue somewhere.

See this thread (260 pages) for some good info.

 

[aaaaa00]

Note this is a full fledged commercial DVD/HDDVD line that can be switched from DVD to HD DVD production in 5 minutes at the push of a button.

http://www.singulus.de/deutsch/4_produkte/replication/spaceline2hd/spaceline2hd_03.htm

The beauty of HD DVD is that over time disc duplicators will upgrade their DVD production lines anyway, because they demand shorter cycle times and higher yields to maximize profit. But since the newer DVD production lines can also make HD DVDs, a disc duplicator may decide to upgrade their DVD production facilities, and get HD DVD capabilities at a marginal additional cost.

Even if HD DVD fails miserably, the disc duplicators haven't lost out much, because they can still use the HD DVD line for great DVD production (which will continue to be in huge demand for the forseeable future due to the huge installed base of drives).

To use an analogy, it's like buying an AMD64 instead of an Itanium. The AMD64 will run 32-bit programs faster than your old computer, and BONUS, when 64-bit AMD64 programs come out, it will run those as well. Whereas buying an Itanium, all your current programs run like crap, and it's not even certain there will be 64-bit Itanium programs to run in the future.

 

[one]

Note this is a full fledged commercial DVD/HDDVD line that can be switched from DVD to HD DVD production in 5 minutes at the push of a button.

http://www.singulus.de/deutsch/4_produkte/replication/spaceline2hd/spaceline2hd_03.htm

IE, it makes HD DVD with zero modifications necessary. It's completely HD DVD ready.

Did SPACELINE II support HD-DVD?

The Concept
The SPACELINE II HD represents the logical advanced development of the SPACELINE II introduced in May of 2004 to guarantee an uninterrupted success of this generation of replication equipment even for future times when the new format HD DVD will step into the market of optical discs.

BTW the same company has a Blu-ray replication product.
http://www.singulus.de/deutsch/4_produkte/replication/index_bluline.htm

 

[aaaaa00]

Did SPACELINE II support HD-DVD?

The Concept
The SPACELINE II HD represents the logical advanced development of the SPACELINE II introduced in May of 2004 to guarantee an uninterrupted success of this generation of replication equipment even for future times when the new format HD DVD will step into the market of optical discs.

SpacelineII and SpacelineII HD are probably not that different, but no SpacelineII did not support HD.

BTW the same company has a Blu-ray replication product.
http://www.singulus.de/deutsch/4_produkte/replication/index_bluline.htm

Prototype only. BD can't agree on whether to use film bonding or spin coating yet, so no one has any idea what real manufacturing lines are going to look like.

http://www.singulus.de/deutsch/4_produkte/replication/bluline/bluline_01.htm

SINGULUS has developed prototypes for two different methods of applying the 100 micron cover layer on Blu-ray. One machine design uses the film bonding technology while the other system is dedicated to liquid resin technology.

A Panasonic prototype line just went online recently with spin coating, and they're not talking about yields yet (so they probably can't be too good). Nor have they been successful in making a double layer BD ROM yet. (Via the CED.)

 

[PC-Engine]

Then add the increased cycle times and costs for hardcoating BR and it becomes obvious which costs more to manufacture.

 

[Npl]

Then add the increased cycle times and costs for hardcoating BR and it becomes obvious which costs more to manufacture.

Since Blu-ray Disc requires less slots in a replication line compared to other formats, it will bring costs on par with DVD, or even cheaper, much sooner. Production facilities can produce many more Blu-ray Discs in the same time period as DVDs

(taken from http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_information/Section-13577/Index.html )

 

[PC-Engine]

Then add the increased cycle times and costs for hardcoating BR and it becomes obvious which costs more to manufacture.

Since Blu-ray Disc requires less slots in a replication line compared to other formats, it will bring costs on par with DVD, or even cheaper, much sooner. Production facilities can produce many more Blu-ray Discs in the same time period as DVDs

(taken from http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_information/Section-13577/Index.html )

That's a bold faced lie.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Taking information from the blu-ray associations website can hardly be considered unbiased, it would be the equivalent from getting your political news from the republican party's homepage. Think it's gonna be spun.,..just a little..maybe?

Seems to me Sony has a big PR compaign going trying to convince people Blu-ray is actually going to be cheap.

The blu-ray website makes all these claims about how it's only slightly more expensive, also an unknown analyst all of a sudden pipes up and claims blu-ray only 10% more expensive than current discs.

Meanwhile, the truth is manufacturers need to invest heavily to overhaul their plants, and right now blu-ray production is extremely expensive.

Are there any UNBIASED sources about the projected costs of blu-ray in the next 2-4 years??

 

[NavNucST3]

Taking information from the blu-ray associations website can hardly be considered unbiased, it would be the equivalent from getting your political news from the republican party's homepage. Think it's gonna be spun.,..just a little..maybe?

Seems to me Sony has a big PR compaign going trying to convince people Blu-ray is actually going to be cheap.

The blu-ray website makes all these claims about how it's only slightly more expensive, also an unknown analyst all of a sudden pipes up and claims blu-ray only 10% more expensive than current discs.

Meanwhile, the truth is manufacturers need to invest heavily to overhaul their plants, and right now blu-ray production is extremely expensive.

Are there any UNBIASED sources about the projected costs of blu-ray in the next 2-4 years??

To be honest with you their website is pretty balanced considering the competition that is out there. There are no negative comments about hd-dvd on their site. In their FAQs the most they do is compare the specs. They also have a page with the 2004 CES which shows both bd-rom players and hd-dvd players...as of the 2004 CES only Sharp had a bd-rom-r that didnt look like a truck to me. The hd-dvd players werent THAT much better but they were on par with the Sharp. Damn the prototyes are huge. Think 5-disc dvd player and then stack another one on top of that---thats about what they look like from the pics. I havent looked at any recent models.