Any news on hdcp on next gen consoles?

[ninelven]

erased

 

[jvd]

So they are going to pick the lowest version to support

Umm no. They won't make the choice of which format to support based on that. Pretty much every HDTV and every DVD player currently available has its own built in scaler, regardless of the quality. There are all of about 0 problems w/ watching a 1080i movie on a standard TV through a composite or s-video connection. So you might need a cable that connects to your TV, but your going to need that to play games anyway.

scaling can and will create artifacts , I would not want to watch a 1080p movie on a 480 i . It will look like crap

However taking a 480i and scaling it to 1080 wont look anywhere near as bad .

 

[London Geezer]

scaling can and will create artifacts , I would not want to watch a 1080p movie on a 480 i . It will look like crap

However taking a 480i and scaling it to 1080 wont look anywhere near as bad .

Both will look like crap. the scaled down 1080p-to-480i will look like today's DVDs.
The 480i-to-1080p one will look like a blurred and possibly artifacted mess.

If anything the scaled down one might look better. Besides, what's "better". the 2 will be displayed on different TVs so...

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Super hyper news, the model I'm looking for is actually supporting hdcp after all, after furious research, I was actually able to find that out (actually my friend ). 61" inches here I come!. That set should futureproof, atleast until 1080p becomes reality.

 

[jvd]

Both will look like crap. the scaled down 1080p-to-480i will look like today's DVDs.
The 480i-to-1080p one will look like a blurred and possibly artifacted mess.

I think the scaled up one wont look to bad , both will look bad but

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Upscaling can make huge difference if the scaler is good, and making 480i to progressive is a big step to better picture.

 

[ninelven]

erased

 

[Ty]

Once again the people making the movie discs are gonig to have the same problem. HTey have to support the lowest one .

Support the lowest resolution? So then you're saying the movie studios will put out HD-DVD movies in 480i?

I highly doubt one blueray or hd dvd disc will have room to support a few diffrent res of the same movies.

This is where you are right though it's not a matter of room so much as the bother to do so.

So they are going to pick the lowest version to support .

Incorrect. Otherwise DVD movies would be broadcast in 480i Black and White - because B&W is the lowest version to support.

Problem is not every set supports the highest , so they are going to have to support the lowest , which isn't it 480i ?

Incorrect again. My previous post explained how TVs support multiple broadcast signals. EVERY TV (certainly every flat panel except for maybe some really off brand commercial units like from Loewe) support a variety of broadcast signals. Just look at ANY TV in your house. It's hooked up to cable (which is 480i, 720p, and/or 1080i) and your DVD player (which is 480i or 480p). Yet your TV functions absolutely 100% fine on those different signals. Futhermore, I bet you didn't know that your cable box likely outputs a variety of signals itself. If you haven't forced the box to output a fixed signal, then it will pass onto your TV EXACTLY what what the broadcasters intend. For instance, Fox HDTV channels are in 720p where as CBS HDTV signals are in 1080i. But if you watch a Standard Definition channel (Non-HDTV) than that is in 480i.

scaling can and will create artifacts , I would not want to watch a 1080p movie on a 480 i . It will look like crap

Scaling (in either direction) can certainly create artifacts but as ninelven pointed out (and I swear I did too earlier) it depends on the quality of the scaler. For instance, the AVM scaler in Fujitsu PDPs are considered to be one of the best. So just about ANY signal you throw at it appears VERY good even though the native resolution is not even close to the signal's resolution.

And don't assume that a 1080p signal scaled down to 480i will 'look like crap'. Remember the FSAA PVR uses? That's down sampling and it looks good, right?

However taking a 480i and scaling it to 1080 wont look anywhere near as bad .

This is HEAVILY dependent upon the scaler. Upscaling is MORE prone to errors I believe.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Next gen games will support 720p that's a fact. And also movies on HD-dvd and Blue Ray will be atleast 720p, there's no question about those.

 

[jvd]

Incorrect. Otherwise DVD movies would be broadcast in 480i Black and White - because B&W is the lowest version to support

Unlike the current situation for the past 20 years color ntsc tvs were standard .


Now you have hdtv with what 4 resloutions ? You have edtv's being sold which is yet another resloution .

So your telling me console makers are going to put out a console that can only support one of those resloutions ? It simply wont work , they will have to pick the lowest one (and when i say this i mean the lowest hd tv res ) as that is what is selling quickly and that is what the majority of the minority that own hd tvs will support .

Sony will find it hard if they ship ps3 to render in 1080p

But if you watch a Standard Definition channel (Non-HDTV) than that is in 480i.

And if i put a 1080p signal to my standard ntsc tv it wont display right .

If i put a 1080p on my 32 inch screen it wont display right as mine only supports 720i . Yes with tv its simple to just change to a compatible channel. But if a video game console only outputs at 1080p there will be problems , it will have to be scaled down and it can create image problems


And no i wont accept that a 600$ unit is the answer to that as posted above .

How much are the fujitsu pdps and what is the chance of them apearing on a ps3 or xenon .... IN the ps3s case i would say very little .

As for the fsaa that power vr uses , I'd rather have the original res before it was down sampled . Let alone all the problems that the fsaa had with most games .

This is HEAVILY dependent upon the scaler. Upscaling is MORE prone to errors I believe.

Mabye , but i don't know how much the scalers cost , the example above is used in a 600$ unit so i don't think they are cheap . Your other example wont make it into one of the next gen consoles ,

So does sony have any good scalers they can put into the unit ?

 

[ninelven]

erased

 

[DemoCoder]

For BluRay/HDDVD, the discs will be encoded at 720p/1080i/1080p, and downscaled by the players for those who hook up a crappier TV.

Just like today, DVDs are shipped in 480p, but people hook them up to 480i and get 240 lines of resolution instead.


There is no reason to put a 480p movie on a BluRay disc. As for having to offer both regular DVD and HDDVD/BluRay versions, the movie studios are already doing that today with Widescreen vs Non-widescreen. Many many DVDs come in two versions.

 

[Ty]

Unlike the current situation for the past 20 years color ntsc tvs were standard .

But you missed the other point my B&W statement brings up. How did we EVER get from B&W to Color? Your argument says that broadcasters would never have begun sending OTA Color signals because B&W is the lowest common denominator.

Now you have hdtv with what 4 resloutions ? You have edtv's being sold which is yet another resloution .

You're still confused about Native pixel resolution and Signal input. If you understood the two you'd see how this is NOT an issue.

So your telling me console makers are going to put out a console that can only support one of those resloutions ?

First of all, I NEVER said ONE of those resolutions. YOU'VE been saying that they will only support ONE resolution, the lowest.

It simply wont work , they will have to pick the lowest one (and when i say this i mean the lowest hd tv res ) as that is what is selling quickly and that is what the majority of the minority that own hd tvs will support .

Again, it's clear you have little understanding of Native Resolution and Signal Inputs.

Sony will find it hard if they ship ps3 to render in 1080p

YOU are the one arguing that Sony will ONLY allow one resolution, not me. Secondly, as proof that your belief is completely wrong, did you know the XBox/GCN can display 480p? If you did, then HOW did those resolutions EVER get in when 480i is the lowest common denominator as your argument would have us believe.

And if i put a 1080p signal to my standard ntsc tv it wont display right .

I'm not even sure how you'd connect it! But if you could, then the next question to ask would be, 'Can your scaler take this sort of signal?' If not, then no, you'd get squat (or a severely messed up image like when your PC monitor can't support the resolution the video card is spitting out). But if the scaler is capable, then you'd get a picture and you probably couldn't tell the difference if it was 1080p or 480i/p depending on your scaler. So basically you're incorrect, your example TV could very well display the image fine.

If i put a 1080p on my 32 inch screen it wont display right as mine only supports 720i . Yes with tv its simple to just change to a compatible channel. But if a video game console only outputs at 1080p there will be problems , it will have to be scaled down and it can create image problems

Hopefully after reading the above lines you'd see that YOU were the one arguing for a single resolution, not me. Secondly, and this is a very important question for you....If your TV ONLY supports 720i (weird), then what happens if you watch a 480i program or DVD that is in 480p? Does it look messed up?

And no i wont accept that a 600$ unit is the answer to that as posted above .

That's what I've been trying to tell you. You don't have to! Your cable box or your TV or your receiver (if routing the signal this way) will SCALE/CONVERT the signal for you. It may not be as good as the DVD0 solution (and their HDTV version costs 1k, not $600 - I've priced them out) but again, that depends on the scalers you have in your equipment.

How much are the fujitsu pdps and what is the chance of them apearing on a ps3 or xenon .... IN the ps3s case i would say very little .

Yea I'd say very little since PDP = Plasma Display Panel, so NO a Fujitsu PDP is NOT going to be appearing ON a PS3 or whatever. It's a Plasma TV. AVM is the scaler WITHIN the Fujitsu TV and it's marlevous. Now if you meant that the AVM would be within the PS3, then no, it won't. But the scaler in your HDTV should be pretty capable.

Also you should know that your argument is wrong already because (I said this before) ALL LCD & Plasma HDTVs support a variety of INPUT signals - 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i even though they only have one native resolution.

As for the fsaa that power vr uses , I'd rather have the original res before it was down sampled . Let alone all the problems that the fsaa had with most games .

The general belief is that the closer the signal resolution matches the native resolution, the better the PQ. But you don't hear anyone complaining about their EDTVs not displaying HDTV sources well.

And the FSAA problem with games is NOT at all indicative of any issue TVs would have with signals. Look at the variety of signals you already watch with ZERO problems.

Mabye , but i don't know how much the scalers cost , the example above is used in a 600$ unit so i don't think they are cheap . Your other example wont make it into one of the next gen consoles ,

So does sony have any good scalers they can put into the unit ?

Sony already has scalers in their TVs and their DVD players. They're not the best (probably mediocre). But your TV and the millions of HDTVs out there ALREADY have scalers built-in as well.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Yep, a game can easily support 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i, and there is absolutely no problems for a game to have support like that. Xbox has allready some games that has those modes for example Enter the Matrix.