I think everyone on this forum knows what went on with UMD, that list is pretty obvious and only valid because, movies on UMD failed and the PSP was hacked. I don´t know the prices on flash from Dec 2004, where the PSP launched, but you could quote your sources?
Alternative distribution to optical disks : SSD, cards, and download*
- Thread starter Cheezdoodles
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I think everyone on this forum knows what went on with UMD, that list is pretty obvious and only valid because, movies on UMD failed and the PSP was hacked. I don´t know the prices on flash from Dec 2004, where the PSP launched, but you could quote your sources?
I just know what i paid for them. 2004 was when i got my first real digital camera and some nice 256 meg cards. Its also when the first 1 gig cards hit the market. Sonys memory sticks were more expensive than sd cards and it holds true to this day. I don't know why they were more however they are. Most likely the sony tax.
SD prices drop every year. At the end of 2008 you would have spent $200 on a 32 gig sdhc card and its speeds would have been around class 4 now for $40 your getting class 6 speeds end of 2010. 64 gig cards came out in 2010 at $350 bucks and are now down to $180 .
Flash for us has such a large mark up at higher capacitys because there is nothing competing with it. The actual cost for nand is pretty cheap in comparison. Remember these companys want to make money and if a company came to them with orders for the volume video game companys need it would keep their nand selling and will actually help to bolster demand for the components driving up prices in other sectors. Unless you think these companys are happy at the rate flash and usb thumb drives drop in price . The volume brought to these companys can help insure cash for more and more advanced processing factorys.
The best part for them is the chips i propose and would be needed are very slow. They already had 60MB/s cards out in 2009. They have since had another process shrink and will most likely hit another before next gen consoles release
YES! The first 1GB cards hit the market and the PSP already 900MB/1.8GB capacity. And Sony had a plan that they would provide High Quality movies and games with heavy media content.
If you do a quick torrent search you can see just how big these games are.
And i find it strange that anyone in here would think a "fiver" isn´t really gonna be a problem when they need to buy games. And at the same time there is a clearly defined issue among gamers, that games are expensive, to expensive, and people are buying used games to save money. Any dollar matters on price.
But my point was, that nothing about the future of flash is proven by this move. Sony chose a different approach, just as Nintendo did with the Gamecube and Wii. Nintendo is the "Cartridge" maker among the console producers. And they moved away from Cartridges in order to save money and gain capacity.
Sony the Disc defender among console makers did something else, and i can see plenty of reasons, i guess they can make their own chips? i think they can save money on hardware and i got a hunch they are going to try harder for digital downloads. And i absolutely don´t see them moving to any cart based media on the PS3
I think
Yes, because DS carts works on any devices..?
You can get movies on DS carts?
UMD Movies failed, not UMD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Media_Disc
Read up on it, if you want to explain how it failed as a game medium, then go ahead.
Uh no they both failed. When you try to recoup costs by joining it to something else and it doesn't work. It failed, for both purposes.
Volume is a factor of unit cost.
aaronspink
Veteran
In a DD world you aren't going to be able to resell your games, though you might be able to relinquish access back to the publisher in return for credits.
So, you are saying that because UMD movies didn´t turn out to be the new DVD format of choice the PSP games were hindered by incredible high production prices?
And these prices most at least have been on par with 1GB flash memory, starting 2004/5 or your theory would be wrong.
And the PSP was hindered by a UMD drive.
Counting the cost of developing UMD and having the drive installed in every PSP, I'm pretty sure flash wins this running away.
But in reality you have no idea and are just making stuff up, and instead of making one usefull post where you actually try to explain what you are guessing at you make a string of one liners.
And in case you lost the thread, the idea is that because Sony drops UMD from the PSP2 it´s an indication that flash is more viable as a future distribution format, while i argue that it´s not necesarely the case for non handheld consoles since Nintendo did just the opposite with the gamecube and WII.
Personally im not seeing optical discs as being the means of distribution next generation. It just makes more sense to rely on:
1. Internet
2. Kiosks
3. Cartridges
So that the average cost of distribution will be lower even if individually flash costs more. The fact that it'd probably save around $30 or thereabouts in warranty repairs and physical costs per console would offset the majority of the difference in cost if every game was still physically purchased on flash cartridges. However since it is possible that physical distribution of cartidges would account for less than 2/3rds or even 1/2 of all game purchases in the next generation the cost difference is no longer as important especially as games nowadays come with DLC so the additional flexibility of flash would actually be useful.
1. Internet
2. Kiosks
3. Cartridges
So that the average cost of distribution will be lower even if individually flash costs more. The fact that it'd probably save around $30 or thereabouts in warranty repairs and physical costs per console would offset the majority of the difference in cost if every game was still physically purchased on flash cartridges. However since it is possible that physical distribution of cartidges would account for less than 2/3rds or even 1/2 of all game purchases in the next generation the cost difference is no longer as important especially as games nowadays come with DLC so the additional flexibility of flash would actually be useful.
Explain what? Do I really need to explain the obvious? Extra cost for developing and using flash in 2004 in an already flash capable device, $0.
I'm not sure the home consoles are done with optical just yet, but I don't expect anything too proprietary, other than maybe an increased density dvd format which is probably already floating around in some lab.
First out of the blue posts.
More questions, and:
Sony proved that Disc Based handhelds could work and work well, and they went with another proven route with the NGP. My point is still that this proves nothing for the future consoles.
And that high capacity disc is already out there, HD-DVD, maybe it could come back as a games format, now that would be fun
Turns out you were talking about movies in a Console section.
I did not make any reference to any movies on DS carts, somehow you dragged it into the discussion without making any usable points about why.
Whoaa +1 for less explanation, more treading water.
More questions, and:
Thank you captain obvious.
No explanation HOW it was hindered, nothing to back up claims that 1.8GB flash storage was in any way a feasible way to store games in 2004.
You already did state the obvious once, so i don´t see how it could be a problem for you to explain exactly how you think that UMD failed as a game format.
Sony proved that Disc Based handhelds could work and work well, and they went with another proven route with the NGP. My point is still that this proves nothing for the future consoles.
And that high capacity disc is already out there, HD-DVD, maybe it could come back as a games format, now that would be fun
Last edited by a moderator:
Yeah it is, i messed up
Silent_Buddha
Legend
If cartridges were reuseable, it would remove the cost of flash entirely. In other words, there could be a standard distribution flash cart size. The cart is only used to transport the game from one physical location to another when the user doesn't have access to broadband and/or doesn't want to use kiosks with their own external media.
So for example a place like Gamestop would carry these reuseable carts already preloaded with a game. When you first buy a game it costs say 60 or 70 USD to offset the price of the flash cart.
After that, each time you go there to get another game, you get a 20-30 USD credit (cost of the cart) which brings the game back inline with the DD cost of 40 USD. Basically once you've put in that initial investment the cost of games going forward would be the same as the DD cost and there is no costs being eaten up by the publishers for disposable media.
Gamestop then erases the game image on the cart and replaces it with whatever new game is coming out. Or keeps it as is if demand for that game is still big. And the cycle repeats.
Basically, there's a LOT of different methods to support a DD only distribution system while maintaining accessibility for those that can't directly download the game off broadband. And in ways that would not be dissimilar to how games are currently distributed.
If a user wants to keep their own copy of the game, just load it onto a USB external HDD. Presumably games will be activated based on online or phone ownership verification thus the distribution medium doesn't matter. Heck in a system like this a person could just download it off a torrent site but still can't play it until it is "unlocked" on his/her account or machine. And, by allowing downloads off torrents or filesharing sites, that lowers the costs to Sony/MS/whoever as they are now not paying the bandwidth.
Regards,
SB
