A survey of our American friends and their politcal standing

Political stand (American)

  • Democrat

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Republican

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    133
Legion said:
RussSchultz said:
Legion said:
There is only one valid explination for this: They simply aren't educating themselves.
I think I'd agree they're not getting educated.

Whether its of their own fault, or somebody elses fault, or a general systemic thing is a different matter all together.

whatever. You can get school books and open them up and read. For God's Sake they could go to damn library. No one said achieving would be easy. Likewise no one can force you to achieve. Why have so many others who are black achieved? Because they put for the effort to do so!

I got 19 years of education under my belt. Public education, University and collage. (BTW none of that had anything to do with cooking, heh.) My problem is that I am not mobile and often that is the problem. So while I might wine about not having an IT networking job or something equivalent in stature I have to except a large portion of responsibility for things. If only I was up the ass of some politician. It is the only way you can get a half decent job around this subsidized economic backwater.
 
pax said:
I dont think its true to generalize the Mcdees thing too.. I applied as a teenager 3 times to MacDoodle and never got in.. why? Cuz there were 3-4 applicants for those summer jobs for every job Rotten Ronnies had to offer...

You guys better not hope too many of those engineering jobs get outsourced to India\China\Russia... ;)

and you better hope your welf fare state doesn't bankrupt you all in 20 years. There, now i feel vendicated.
 
RussSchultz said:
pax said:
. Unemployment has an enormous effect on wages...

Except unemployment isn't controlled by the people who pay the wages. Its controlled by the economy as a whole.

Companies hire who they need to produce the product they can sell. If they decide in a nefarious plot (to sell less so that they can hire less so that they can keep the wages low), some other company will do the hiring and producing such that the unemployment/wages equation will balance.

Ya but Russ its not hard to see if you're hiring for your company if 4 top notch engineers shows up for one job posting... and this situation keeps repeating itself each time you hire that you guys are gonna pay less less as time goes on...
 
I certainly agree with that, Pax. Its just that you cannot control unemployment as a concious means of keeping wages low. (Which seemed to be your assertion)
 
pax said:
RussSchultz said:
pax said:
. Unemployment has an enormous effect on wages...

Except unemployment isn't controlled by the people who pay the wages. Its controlled by the economy as a whole.

Companies hire who they need to produce the product they can sell. If they decide in a nefarious plot (to sell less so that they can hire less so that they can keep the wages low), some other company will do the hiring and producing such that the unemployment/wages equation will balance.

Ya but Russ its not hard to see if you're hiring for your company if 4 top notch engineers shows up for one job posting... and this situation keeps repeating itself each time you hire that you guys are gonna pay less less as time goes on...

That makes no sense at all Pax. If that were true why have wages increased? I can tell you it has nothing to do with minimum wage Pax.
 
Dr. Ffreeze said:
Sabastian,

try this on for size. I just lost my fucking job

Damn sorry to hear that bro. Good luck finding something new.

Dr. Ffreeze

Yeah I am just on a rant here. There was no need for that business to go under..... I am sure I will find some other menial job soon enough.
 
Say it with me Sabastian

"social plans are baddass!"

thats a good liberal slave! Now go and eat your welfare wheaties!
 
pax,

I dont think its true to generalize the Mcdees thing too.. I applied as a teenager 3 times to MacDoodle and never got in.. why? Cuz there were 3-4 applicants for those summer jobs for every job Rotten Ronnies had to offer...

All I know is I walked in, got a job at McD's, Ponderosa, and Mainscape (landscaping) for my summer work. 3 jobs to get me some fast cash for school next year. I walked into a department store for an hourly position, walked out a manager with no experience.

Maybe I am just one lucky SOB, =)
Dr. Ffreeze

PS. Well, yes I am! Working at a department store, I did a zany fun experiment and got highered in the tech industry from my web page, 1st business trip my marketing rep was delayed so I got to give the presentation of my experiment to Bill Gates (hehehe), I got GREAT wife (/bog she said yes when I asked her to marry me). =)
 
pax said:
Merit has its place but its been way overplayed.

Not on white collar professions. A good engineer, lawyer, or doctor can be ten times as productive as a mediocre one. One John Carmack can put out 10 times the amount of efficient, debugged, and relevant code than 10 graphic programmers with the same number of years working.


Just look at the number of people who enter the workforce during economic upturns.

Obscured by migration and immigration. California had a huge surge in its workforce during the 90s. Was that unemployed engineers returning to work, or was it millions of immigrants, new graduates, and illegal mexicans flowing into the economy?

The stats hide a lot of unemployment. Also look at what it takes for one to be taken into the unemployment stats. You must work less than 10 hrs a week and present yourself to your UI agent regularly.

Wrong

From BLS.GOV said:
Some people think that to get these figures on unemployment the Government uses the number of persons filing claims for unemployment insurance (UI) benefits under State or Federal Government programs. But some people are still jobless when their benefits run out, and many more are not eligible at all or delay or never apply for benefits. So, quite clearly, UI information cannot be used as a source for complete information on the number of unemployed.

It is done as a large survey every week, and to be classified as unemployed you need only express that you are still looking or want to work, or, you were layed off and expect to be recalled.

If you did work for pay (even if only 10 hours a week) you are classified as employed, and I certainly think that is correct.

At best, it's "underemployment" not unemployment, and you can argue until you're blue in the face over it since no one knows how to scientifically measure it, it is frequently used as an "out" by liberals who can't deal with economic figures.


If labor markets were that tight wages would be significantly going up. They arent.

Bzzt, they went up majorly in the late 90s for all income quintiles. Moreover, for educated workers, they went up tremendously. My salary went up by $10,000 per year almost every year I worked. I started at $20k, now I make $140k. That's not counting stock options, bonuses, and other benefits (vacation, medical, etc) Ditto for my wife who is not exactly a top-tier computer programmer.

A huge number of MBAs and computer graduates fresh out of school started out as high as $70k. During the 90s, companies were paying up to $10,000 finder fees to anyone who could suggest an application. They were giving away $10,000 signing bonuses, and in one example I know of, giving each new employee (even junior programmers) BMWs.

Now the job market is facing an oversupply because of the economic downturn, but this is life. White collar Jobs are being outsourced to Indians overseas.

I figure, if my skills become irrelevent enough that I can replaced by someone in Bangalore, then I need to brush up my skills and make myself a more valuable product.
 
If you did work for pay (even if only 10 hours a week) you are classified as employed, and I certainly think that is correct.
You say wrong then you vindicate me... I know of a few bud engineers who have been getting less and less last few years. Not sure your anecdote of your peronal experience is that good. I see whole swaths of jobs from nurses to teachers who havent kept up with inflation in terms of pay increases in Canada... Gives me the impression unemployment is affecting wages.

Its a bit annoying to discuss this. Its supposed to be a free market in the states isnt it? Competition among workers exists... Ive seen it so often in my community its not funny.

Dr Freeze you seem to live in a good jurisdiction!

Legion depends on the place but overall wages are not keeping up with inflation. Although me and demo have argued this to death already. Its really a more offensive picture when you see that wages arent keeping up with productivity...
 
pax said:
. Its really a more offensive picture when you see that wages arent keeping up with productivity...

Correct. Wages are rising faster than inflation, they just aren't rising as fast as "they could have" given the productivity increases.

However, the picture is distorted by the fact that what doesn't go into the workers incomes, goes into the capital markets, and thus some of gains are diverted to workers in the forms of return on investment/savings.


Problem is, the vast majority of the "productivity increase" has been in the service sector, not the manufacturing sector, which generally means that it costs slightly less to deliver a service, not that more service can be delivered.


As for where you were wrong, it's on saying it was based on UI. It's not. It's based on a national phone survey.
 
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