A moment of clarity: gameplay over graphics

[Nesh]

.....

You separate the two sides way too much and I think that you also confuse the context under which people discuss graphics.

Those that demand better graphics also want good gameplay. But you will see them many times complain about the visuals depending on the game they are discussing, the platform it is on and its ability to immerse the gamer.

For example dont expect someone who owns a 360 or a PS3 expect from a big title to have mediocre graphics like Resident Evil. They want their money's worth. They view the gameplay and the visuals as a part of the overall package's quality. People form expectations based on the experience they want to get from a certain title. People have big expectations about the visual expression in realistic war games too. They call it immersion. Sonic Unleashed on the other hand doesnt need the same technical achievements to be liked visually and as a game. You dont have to include realistic animation, you dont need super crisp textures, you dont need huge realistic explosions everywhere or realistic lighting.

In other games/genres the standards may be lower or different. Braid is considered beautiful and fun by the same people that may complain about a low resolution texture in MGS4 or choppy animation in Too Human.

The same people could even own a Wii and enjoy Mario Galaxy without any complains regarding the visuals.

edit: Reading again your post I think we are saying the same thing

I agree

 

[Lucid_Dreamer]

You separate the two sides way too much and I think that you also confuse the context under which people discuss graphics.

Those that demand better graphics also want good gameplay. But you will see them many times complain about the visuals depending on the game they are discussing, the platform it is on and its ability to immerse the gamer.

For example dont expect someone who owns a 360 or a PS3 expect from a big title to have mediocre graphics like Resident Evil. They want their money's worth. They view the gameplay and the visuals as a part of the overall package's quality. People form expectations based on the experience they want to get from a certain title. People have big expectations about the visual expression in realistic war games too. They call it immersion. Sonic Unleashed on the other hand doesnt need the same technical achievements to be liked visually and as a game. You dont have to include realistic animation, you dont need super crisp textures, you dont need huge realistic explosions everywhere or realistic lighting.

In other games/genres the standards may be lower or different. Braid is considered beautiful and fun by the same people that may complain about a low resolution texture in MGS4 or choppy animation in Too Human.

The same people could even own a Wii and enjoy Mario Galaxy without any complains regarding the visuals.

edit: Reading again your post I think we are saying the same thing

I agree

I want to understand why people are being hypocritical with their game judgements. Why do certain games have a battery of checklists (INCLUDING gameplay) they have to have checked and others (like Wii games) get free passes on damn near every column on those checklists? Why are some of us doing that? It just doesn't seem logical or fair.

 

[Nesh]

Well I too believe that many Wii games fail to meet the standards even if we take into consideration the weaker hardware and the type of experience some titles are trying to offer, and yet people are more forgiving when they shouldnt.

I am not sure if we are agreeing or if you misunderstood me anywhere in my previous post though.

 

[Mobius1aic]

Well I too believe that many Wii games fail to meet the standards even if we take into consideration the weaker hardware and the type of experience some titles are trying to offer, and yet people are more forgiving when they shouldnt.

I am not sure if we are agreeing or if you misunderstood me anywhere in my previous post though.

I agree with the forgiveness thing, but remember that this system is the first foray into games for alot of people, so they really haven't experienced everything, just a small niche. Being a very weak system, it gives devs an excuse to make ****** looking and playing games without any remorse, because much of the first timers really don't know what to expect and are willing to accept anything. While I know by this point Nintendo has made their ass load of money it still would've been nice to have a system at least a quarter as powerful as it's HD brothers, as well as some real vertex calculating hardware for cool Doom 3/FEAR like shadowing

 

[eastmen]

The justification was that people don't go to see hand-drawn movies anymore.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2003-10-28-2d-animation_x.htm

Its a fad , cgi movies aren't doing as well as they were and in 10 years or so Disney will bring back hand drawn movies again and it will be all the fad. Then that will die and cgi will come back and so on.

 

[eastmen]

That's a very important point. Neither Braid nor Super Mario Galaxy nor any Monkey Island part has poor graphics, they're actually quite beautiful. They just use dated graphics technology.

It's a bit comparable to some Japanese anime, while technically lacking due to economic constraints they may still be beautiful works of art.

Monkey Island had amazing graphics when it was released. People today would most likely pass on monkey island and pick up a similar game with modern graphics though. Its just like the first zelda , when it came it out it had amazing graphics. Ask a 5 year old to choose between Zelda and Twilight princess and see which they would choose. They may both be great games (and thats debatable) but obviously he is going to choose the one that looks better.

Look at Bonic comanado , the gameplay was great and it would be hard to sell the original to modern audiances , however they improved the graphics and its selling well as an arcade title. In 20 years from now Gears of war may still be a great game , however if you give a palyer the choice between Gears and an equaly good modern shooter of the time they will of course pick the new Shooter.

You can allways have great gameplay no matter what system and specs . You only really have one chance to nail the graphics though . There is no reason now a days that we can't have both great graphics and great gameplay and the wii doesn't exist in an vaccuum . Mario galaxeys looked great for a gamecube game , but on a $250 brand new console it looks bad esp when compared to what you get on other consoles only slightly more expensive. Unless your going to tell m ethere are no great games on the xbox 360