A moment of clarity: gameplay over graphics

[RobertR1]

It's often we're smitten with good looks and thus discuss it endlessly. This isn't just native to games but most things in life. However, for gaming, B3D takes this to another step. I'll be the first to admit that I do love graphics and thus I'm on this site.

However, something happened in the past week that is really changing my perspective on the actual fun aspects of gaming. You see, having bought a Wii a while back; I played with it for a bit and then put it away. Bought Mario Kart and discarded it quickly also. Then recently, I gave Gamefly a shot.

Just for fun, I decided to rent out Super Mario Galaxy. Already I had the perception of "god this is gonna look like crap on a 60inch TV....." and guess what? It kinda does! Then I started playing it...and playing it... and playing it......You get the point. The game itself is downright amazing. I've rescued 3 grand stars so far and the level variety is amazing. There are many parts when I went "how'd they come up with this?" The controls are perfect. Even with a whole new landscape and concept you never forget that it's Mario. Now that I've adapted to it, the graphics don't even stand out because I'm so immersed in actual gameplay. Even then, the colors, textures and environments perfectly suit the theme of the level. Every level I go into, it’s with the excitement of “what will they think of next!?” Count the number of games that can make you say that and you’ll see that it’s a rather small list. (this isn’t list wars, so keep the lists to yourselves)

So as I'm all enamored with Mario Galaxy, I happen to turn on my 360 and download an Arcade game by the name of Braid. Let me openly admit that there is no way I'll be able to translate my thoughts about this game in a coherent manner. Why? Because this game is just so far out there, it’s stimulated thought processes in my head that I have not used in any game ever before. Think linear and you'll never be able to finish this game. Your ability to advance in this game is strictly limited to the limits you impose on your mind. Let it roam free and things will become clear. Let's be clear. While Braid has a unique art style it's still no Banjo or Gears 2. However, it's the game that has pretty much exhausted my mind and I simply want to go home and play it more.

All said and done, my excitement towards the "power house" of games coming up has not waned. I’m still just as much excited but about them. However, playing these games certainly does change my perception of games. Looks matter more when gameplay is routine. Stimulate my brain with amazing gamplay and it'll even start looking good due to the mental satisfaction from advancing in the game or just from the anticipation of what could be next. Both games deserve an easy 10/10. All their technical limitations are easily surpassed by their head and shoulder above the rest mental experience.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Cool. I was thinking of passing on Braid because of the price, but now I think I'll check it out. Too many great reviews.

I really am a gameplay over graphics guy. I love the eye candy, but it doesn't keep me interested too long if the gameplay is poor. I can play a game despite poor graphics if the gameplay is top notch.

Geometry Wars 2!

 

[NERO]

I guess I can say that I am a gameplay person because I play games not just view them. On the other hand gameplay and graphics are closely nit depending on what the developer is going for and the preference of the player buying the product. Where the two ends meat wink can give one an answer as to which they really are - gamer or graphic watcher - although the tag may change depending on mood or an already established gaming preference.

Either way I played SMG and it was the most joy I'd had playing a game in some time. MGS4 was magnificient but I don't know if it gave me the same drooling, b@*sh*t happy joy that SMG gave me when I played it last year (and collected all 120 stars). A lot of this has to do with my being raised on Mario and waxing nostalgic on what seemed to be the truest representation of SMB3/Super Mario World in the 3rd demension.

 

[pjbliverpool]

I bought SMG for my girlfriend last christmas. She still hasn't taken it out of the shrink wrap!

Its doing my head in because i'm dying to have a go!!!

 

[-tkf-]

Braid:

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=205102

10/10

 

[scooby_dooby]

I thought SMG was cool, but a little on the easy side. It didn't seem to have the challenge previous Mario's had. Me and my girlfriend finished it off together, she had some trouble but I breezed through it fairly easily.

I dunno, honestly it left me wanting in the gameplay department quite a bit. The level design was great, and the originality was fun, but actual challenges presented were sortof repetitive to me...

Can't wait to try Braid though, gotta see what all the hype is about...

 

[Rangers]

I prefer graphics over gameplay.

Any game can have good gameplay, but not any game can look good.

We play in a visual medium, it's foolish to pretend we dont care how it looks.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I prefer graphics over gameplay.

Any game can have good gameplay, but not any game can look good.

We play in a visual medium, it's foolish to pretend we dont care how it looks.

That's crazy talk. You're the reason we're getting so many derivative games with new graphics slapped on. And when I say, "you," I don't mean people like you. I mean you, specifically. It's all your fault. Ha ha ha.

 

[eastmen]

I played SMB:G. I couldn't help but think that this game would have been much better on the new systems. I felt the same way with the new Zelda. Imagine Zelda on the Xbox 360 and how much it would add to the story and game play having amazing graphics. I don't know why people feel that gamecube level graphics are okay for games. We have high def tvs and these 480p titles look horrid on these things. Nintendo could have easily released the controller on the xbox 360 and we all would have had an even better play experience.

 

[-tkf-]

I don't know why people feel that gamecube level graphics are okay for games. We have high def tvs and these 480p titles look horrid on these things.

And they don´t care just like those that watch DVD´s on HiDef TVs. When i get a Wii it will be on small TV and will i get to enjoy a bucket full of very good games.

I fully agree that the Wii with PS3 or 360 power would be fantastic, but thats just dreaming, so those that play it settles with what they have. At least Braid is a 360 title, i hope it will sse a PS3 release?

 

[eastmen]

And they don´t care just like those that watch DVD´s on HiDef TVs. When i get a Wii it will be on small TV and will i get to enjoy a bucket full of very good games.

I fully agree that the Wii with PS3 or 360 power would be fantastic, but thats just dreaming, so those that play it settles with what they have. At least Braid is a 360 title, i hope it will sse a PS3 release?

Those that buy the wii for the fad games will simply put the console away after they tire of it. It wont come out again till the next fad game. I see that with my older sister. She jumped from wii sports to mario kart and now wii fit. She has already stoped using it and its back in the closet. If these titles and their hype from the main stream press were on the xbox 360 or ps3 they would sell just as well and I'm sure people would like the graphics more.

I want to add that once you get great control whats next. Wii sports is a fun game... but whats next ? More sports ? The main ones are covered in Wii Sports 1. How about Mario Galaxy. It has great game play but what makes you come back for more. The great gameplay could be 1 reason , but thats only 1 reason and it wont work for everyone because great gameplay doesn't exist in a vacuum. Gears of war had great gameplay , Gears 2 tweaked it and refined it but it also increased an already beautifull game with better graphics and physics. The same could be said about Resistance also. There needs to be more than just great gameplay to get people to come back to a game. Any game can have great game play , beautifull graphics , great features. But few can have all of these things. The wii games will allways lack 1 of these.

 

[I.S.T.]

I played SMB:G. I couldn't help but think that this game would have been much better on the new systems. I felt the same way with the new Zelda. Imagine Zelda on the Xbox 360 and how much it would add to the story and game play having amazing graphics. I don't know why people feel that gamecube level graphics are okay for games. We have high def tvs and these 480p titles look horrid on these things. Nintendo could have easily released the controller on the xbox 360 and we all would have had an even better play experience.

Hate to nitpick here, but there's no Bros. in Super Mario Galaxy's title/name/whatever other word for name you can think of when not on medication that makes you tired all the time.

>.>

Man, Luigi has been screwed over for years.

Anyway, back on topic... I think graphics can enhance a game. A better GPU can help create much larger worlds and levels. That's what I look forward to with each new generation.

Well, that and no color banding. Damned Nintendo couldn't even fix that for the Wii...

 

[Scott_Arm]

Truly great gameplay is a rarity. There's enough games with derivative or mediocre gameplay. I'll gladly play a 480p game on an HDTV if it's a really tight game. I'm killing to play God of War 2 on my bros PS2, but he hasn't finished it yet. They nailed everything, except it's last-gen graphics. It's still nice looking. Seriously, in that genre of button mashing action, has anything "next-gen" surpassed God of War yet? Don't think so. Gameplay > graphics.

Edit: And if graphics trumped gameplay, then every game on PSP and DS would by garbage by default. And don't tell me they follow a different set of rules because they're handhelds. Graphics are good or they're not, regardless of the hardware they're running on. If the PSP and DS get a free pass, then the Wii gets a free pass as well.

 

[MJP]

I played SMB:G. I couldn't help but think that this game would have been much better on the new systems.

I have similar feelings on Wii games. I'm a huge fan of the original Metroid Prime, but I find it impossible to play the third game without thinking to myself "this game would have been phenomenal on the Xbox 360". So much of original's quality came from the atmosphere, and I'd have loved to see what Retro could do with better hardware. It really kills the game for me, unfortunately.

 

[NERO]

I see what some of you folks are getting at but think of it in these terms; A game that looks like crap but plays wonderfully or a game that looks photorealistic but is just a crap Myst iteration? Of course we'd want both, but if one had to chose then we probably would go with the former.

Also, I don't know if I want a photrealistic goomba although maybe I want something better than what the Wii currently produces.

 

[Freak'n Big Panda]

Just for fun, I decided to rent out Super Mario Galaxy. Already I had the perception of "god this is gonna look like crap on a 60inch TV....." and guess what? It kinda does! Then I started playing it...and playing it... and playing it......You get the point. The game itself is downright amazing.

Good games are always good regardless of the graphics. I recently started playing mgs2 and had exactly the same reaction. After I played for a bit I just let myself become immersed in the game and I completely forgot that about the low poly models and crappy textures.

Just for the purpose of discussion how are we defining gameplay here? Does GOW have bad gameplay? It's hugely derivative but I'd say that the gameplay is pretty solid for a shooter. Maybe originality is a better term to describe Mario Galaxies strength? That's what I look for in games, give me something I haven't seen before and I'll be happy regardless of how shit the graphics are.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Just for the purpose of discussion how are we defining gameplay here? Does GOW have bad gameplay? It's hugely derivative but I'd say that the gameplay is pretty solid for a shooter.

This is true. I've been throwing "derivative" around, but it isn't always a bad thing. I thought Gears nailed it, and it was fun.

 

[inefficient]

Super Mario Galaxy looked like crap on my HDTV when I first started playing it. That first scene where the town is under attack, I was literally shocked how bad it looked. I was thinking: "this is the game that got a 10 by almost every major reviewer?"

But by the time I got to the first boss battle I was really enjoying the game because thats when the cool gameplay mechanics really started to kick in. And the game didn't stop introducing new but very intuitive and obvious game play ideas all the way to the very end. It stayed constantly interesting for me. It's the only Wii game I have manged to play all the way through without losing interest.

Zelda TP also did a pretty good job with the game play. The problem with that game is they stretched it out way too long and the game just got boring toward the end. I think I am near the very final boss battle but I have just not been able to build up any interest to go back to it. And the other problem is that game is so complicated compared to Mario. It also hasa any game play concepts you have to remember. And when you put the game down for a few months and try to come back to it, it is really freaking hard to get back into it.

MP3 I wanted to like, but I kind of hate it. I enjoyed all the puzzle and platforming parts of the game. And hated all the combat! Totally generic enemies, and having to tap a button to shoot every shot is BS.

 

[eastmen]

I see what some of you folks are getting at but think of it in these terms; A game that looks like crap but plays wonderfully or a game that looks photorealistic but is just a crap Myst iteration? Of course we'd want both, but if one had to chose then we probably would go with the former.

Also, I don't know if I want a photrealistic goomba although maybe I want something better than what the Wii currently produces.

But why do you have to choose. There are many great games with cutting edge graphics. Oblivion , Bioshock , Gears , Mass effect , COD4 and others. None of these play like crap. Mario plays great but looks like Mario sunshine which is now what 5 or 6 years old ? Would Mario Galaxy suck with Kameo + level graphics ? Would it be any worse than it was on the wii ? I think in that situation its almost impossible to make a great game worse by adding graphics.

Just for the purpose of discussion how are we defining gameplay here? Does GOW have bad gameplay? It's hugely derivative but I'd say that the gameplay is pretty solid for a shooter. Maybe originality is a better term to describe Mario Galaxies strength? That's what I look for in games, give me something I haven't seen before and I'll be happy regardless of how shit the graphics are.

How many games have you seen a cover system in akin to Gears before gears came out? Now how many games have you seen where you jump around in a 3d world collecting items and jumping on bad guys heads. I can name at least 2 besides galaxys.... ironicly both start with mario in their title

 

[inefficient]

Edit: And if graphics trumped gameplay, then every game on PSP and DS would by garbage by default. And don't tell me they follow a different set of rules because they're handhelds. Graphics are good or they're not, regardless of the hardware they're running on. If the PSP and DS get a free pass, then the Wii gets a free pass as well.

I actually bought Metal Gear Solid 1 from the PSN store and tried playing it on my HDTV. It looked like crap and I was having a very hard time enjoying it because of how bad it looked.

I copied the game over the my PSP and the game looked much better! There is really something almost magical about playing on a screen that is 10x smaller that makes the game look so much better.

Likewise I also bought the cable to connect my PSP to my TV via component out. Even the very best PSP games look like crap and completely unplayable to me. While on the PSP screen they are still pleasent enough to look at without cringing.