Microsoft needs to make Live free

[Sis]

So remind me, what exactly was it I paid for when I forked over my ~$85 for the game itself then?

Like I said, companies already offer for free - as in, no extra charges over price of the game itself - what MS charges its XBL users for. I don't see how that can be anything but a horrific deal...

It's a little different, though I do get your point. It's like asking why you'd have to pay for dial-up service to AOL when you've already paid for a subscription to some website. The cost for the XBL service--or rather, the implementation since the service itself is probably not the big expense--must be made up somewhere. MSN Messenger makes it up in advertising. Development houses/publishers on the PC side make it up on sold games. Microsoft is just getting the money directly.

I would not be shocked at all to see that price go away if Sony truly has a compelling and free alternative come PS3 launch... But, as of today, what good reasons would an executive on the Xbox team give to the CFO for throwing away US$100 million a year?

 

[expletive]

I've always a key benefit of XBL was peer-persuasion.

Umm, don't you mean 'community'?

 

[Inane_Dork]

XBL is a strange beast. They charge for online play, but the games we play online (while paying) typically aren't hosted on MS hardware, but rather our own consoles and use our own bandwidth. MMOs, which will be hosted on separate hardware, will have EXTRA charges attached to them, on top of what XBL costs already.

They offer demos, videos and other downloads, but that is free, at no charge.

A particulary fanatic advocate of the pay-for-play ripoff scheme of XBL (name withheld to protect the guilty ) say we pay for friends list, match browser, tournaments, prizes etc. Yet MSN Messenger offers a friends list, for free. Virtually every online PC game offers a browser, for free. Even Quake 2's master server is still live and kicking nearly a friggin decade after release. And dunno what MS does in the states, but we don't get shit as far as tournaments and prizes are concerned in europe.

So what the frick are we paying for really? XBL is nothing but a license for MS to print free money, a way of offering a service which does nothing. Or at least does nothing that they themselves and others aren't already offering other people at no charge.

First, some of that stuff is available on the free tier.

Second, games that have running servers (Quake II, for example) have the cost of server maintenance built-in to the cost of the game. XBL has no game like that.

Third, most of your examples of "free" services also have "free" ads in conspicuous places. Those ads are hotlinks to other sites. Even if XBL had ads, which it does not, they wouldn't be as lucrative because there's no way to immediately follow the ad.


Of course, none of these matter because they're all obvious to the unbiased observer. If you were one, you'd already know them and have discarded them. If you are not, these things will not sway your opinion because facts do not determine opinion.

 

[m1nd_x]

Surely Guden, I'll expect you to be the first to start complaining about PS3 having ads in their free service. "What are these ads here for?!!! What is the money these things are surely making Sony paying for?!!! Blah-Blah-Blah and Blah are free on Blah, why are these developers looking to get paid?" ... Probably not though, right?

 

[Masterofunlocking]

So what the frick are we paying for really? XBL is nothing but a license for MS to print free money, a way of offering a service which does nothing. Or at least does nothing that they themselves and others aren't already offering other people at no charge.

A license to print free money that makes MS lose a lot of money instead...

Seriously, I hate MS' insane focus on Xbox Live and online play this generation. Most gamers don't care about it, don't care about paying for it or taking their credit card out (or buying card points in stores), and I believe it's going to cost them a lot in the long run.

And then they make people pay for new costumes, models, and other stuff like that which is so unimportant and absurd, and used to be free!

 

[pc999]

I also think that free online is also a major feature, I would not mind with a ads as long as they arent long or too intrusive.

I can play free in a lot of machine so I will not play for XBL.

 

[Sis]

A license to print free money that makes MS lose a lot of money instead...

Seriously, I hate MS' insane focus on Xbox Live and online play this generation. Most gamers don't care about it, don't care about paying for it or taking their credit card out (or buying card points in stores), and I believe it's going to cost them a lot in the long run.

And then they make people pay for new costumes, models, and other stuff like that which is so unimportant and absurd, and used to be free!

Where do you get that MS loses money on Xbox Live? And how can you reasonably say most gamers don't care about it given the two million subscribers Xbox had?

Also, MS does not force anyone to buy new costumes. The game publisher/developer decides if and for how much.

 

[Moonblade]

And how can you reasonably say most gamers don't care about it given the two million subscribers Xbox had?

The answer is in your question.

Live is without a doubt a great service but I think MS has been overhyping it the last few years. I think consoles, in their current state don't have the same 'affinity' for a global online community and internet like personal computers do.

 

[GB123]

Where do you get that MS loses money on Xbox Live? And how can you reasonably say most gamers don't care about it given the two million subscribers Xbox had?

Also, MS does not force anyone to buy new costumes. The game publisher/developer decides if and for how much.

Well said ..

 

[Sis]

The answer is in your question.

Live is without a doubt a great service but I think MS has been overhyping it the last few years. I think consoles, in their current state don't have the same 'affinity' for a global online community and internet like personal computers do.

True enough, if you look at it in absolute terms. But certainly getting 2 million gamers to pay $50 a year to play online indicates that gamers are indeed interested. The fact that most are still not willing to pay is only an indication that the right value proposition isn't there for them. And of course, this doesn't count the numerous gamers playing PC games, such as MMOs and more traditional online coop/deathmatch type games.

Saying gamers aren't interested in playing online is similar to saying gamers aren't interested in two player games.

 

[Masterofunlocking]

Where do you get that MS loses money on Xbox Live? And how can you reasonably say most gamers don't care about it given the two million subscribers Xbox had?

Also, MS does not force anyone to buy new costumes. The game publisher/developer decides if and for how much.

Just how many of these two million subscribers on Xbox just benefited from generous free trials that MS included with its games, trials which are now reduced to a measly two days?

And how many of them kept being active online gamers?

Concerning these microtransactions, I think that publishers simply benefit from a platform that MS has set in place with Xbox Live... an asburd, revolting concept that does a lot more harm than good to gaming and publishers, IMO...

Instead of free extras we'll get half-baked "opportunities for microtransactions", and measly quests or supplemental levels instead of free downloads or just full-fledged expansion packs.

 

[winstonsmith1978]

If Microsoft made Live free, I would go out and buy a system right now. I don’t know why, but the $50 a year just pisses me off. I really don’t see how $400 for a system, $60 for a game and $45 a month for Comcast doesn’t cover online gaming. Just add some advertisements, make it free and be done with it.

This is the only reason why the PS3 is higher on my list. Even if PS3 is $100 - $200 more then the 360, over a 5-year period of online gaming – the PS3 comes off cheaper with some extra perks. If Sony charges, I’ll just stick to PC gaming and playing with my Wii.

It’s too bad, I really want some Mass Effect and Fable 2 action.

 

[Sis]

Just how many of these two million subscribers on Xbox just benefited from generous free trials that MS included with its games, trials which are now reduced to a measly two days?

None. AFAIK, the 2 million is paid subscription, not trials.

And how many of them kept being active online gamers?

This is irrelevant and probably not determinable, anyway.

Concerning these microtransactions, I think that publishers simply benefit from a platform that MS has set in place with Xbox Live... an asburd, revolting concept that does a lot more harm than good to gaming and publishers, IMO...

Instead of free extras we'll get half-baked "opportunities for microtransactions", and measly quests or supplemental levels instead of free downloads or just full-fledged expansion packs.

Absolutely true that publishers "simply" benefit from a platform that MS has set in place--why else would Microsoft implement it? For the fun of it? The idea is: 1) Is there a problem that Microsoft can solve and 2) in doing so make money? It's clear Microsoft thinks microtransactions are a problem it can solve--and has, through the whole point system. It's deviously clever in some ways, since buying points is simple and painless, but in other ways it's just painfully obvious and anyone building a platform would have done the same thing.

I find the whole idea of paying 3 dollars for a ring tone on my cell phone revolting, but millions of people seem to love the idea. On the other hand, so far I like the whole microtransactions on Xbox Live, for some compelling yet indefinable reason.

 

[Masterofunlocking]

None. AFAIK, the 2 million is paid subscription, not trials.
This is irrelevant and probably not determinable, anyway.

It'd be interesting to have statistics to know more about how much of these people are avid online gamers on Xbox Live which are continuously renewing their subscriptions... hmmm...

Absolutely true that publishers "simply" benefit from a platform that MS has set in place--why else would Microsoft implement it? For the fun of it? The idea is: 1) Is there a problem that Microsoft can solve and 2) in doing so make money? It's clear Microsoft thinks microtransactions are a problem it can solve--and has, through the whole point system. It's deviously clever in some ways, since buying points is simple and painless, but in other ways it's just painfully obvious and anyone building a platform would have done the same thing.

I find the whole idea of paying 3 dollars for a ring tone on my cell phone revolting, but millions of people seem to love the idea. On the other hand, so far I like the whole microtransactions on Xbox Live, for some compelling yet indefinable reason.

But seriously, even if Xbox Live gets somewhat popular, I don't see how it can cover the rest of Microsoft's expenses. First and foremost this generation, they'll make money with (hopefully) hardware and game sold at retail on hard copies.

I also hate the system of points, it seems more like a masquerade to tone down the fact that you have to pay to get all these superfluous add-ons.

I'd hate microtransactions less if we were offered substantial content, however right now no one seems to have delivered. Seems like goodies that used to be free are being offered in exchange for money to get a few suckers...

Maybe developpers can make some extra money with their games after release... but could that really be significant enough? And of course although it's not like that as of now, I don't like the idea of being forced to have an Internet connexion to get the whole monty.

 

[expletive]

I also hate the system of points, it seems more like a masquerade to tone down the fact that you have to pay to get all these superfluous add-ons.

I'd hate microtransactions less if we were offered substantial content, however right now no one seems to have delivered. Seems like goodies that used to be free are being offered in exchange for money to get a few suckers...

Well i think the point that people tend to gloss over is that you dont 'have' to pay for any of this stuff. If you deem these add-ons superfluous, i dont know why wou'd download them for free, much less pay for them.

Points were necessary because they needed a an alternative to credit cards in some regions, i dont think it was a ploy to fake people into thinking the marketplace stuff didnt really cost anything.

The only way we'll get substantial content for microtransactions is by not buying insubstantial content when its offered. The thousands of people who paid $2 for horse armor certainly didnt help that cause...

 

[NavNucST3]

Well i think the point that people tend to gloss over is that you dont 'have' to pay for any of this stuff. If you deem these add-ons superfluous, i dont know why wou'd download them for free, much less pay for them.

Points were necessary because they needed a an alternative to credit cards in some regions, i dont think it was a ploy to fake people into thinking the marketplace stuff didnt really cost anything.

The only way we'll get substantial content for microtransactions is by not buying insubstantial content when its offered. The thousands of people who paid $2 for horse armor certainly didnt help that cause...

To "trick out" my 360 for my son, I have spent more than a couple dollars on themes and gamer pics, and I even bought the Kameo masquerade pack, which is a huge hit with my son. For myself, I bought all of the Outpost Kaloki X scenarios (if Wik added something I would buy it for that game as well), I bought the Chicago Bears gamer pics, and I am most assuredly going to buy the Cubs gamer pics from MLB. So maybe it really is about choice, simple matter of people voting with their wallets. I think the best way to get "better" content is for more users to start supporting XBLA. But, I have no problems with the cost of live, when I compare the content of what I get from Live with Marketplace and Arcade vs what I get from Comcast at $157/ MONTH (broadband inclusive) I say Live wins every single time.

 

[NavNucST3]

Slight side-note, but Microsoft has bought Massive, a leader in in-game advertising. So ads are coming..hopefully/perhaps in preparation to take the subscription out of Live, or make more of it free.

edit - sorry, they're said to be planning to buy Massive. Deal isn't done yet.

Deal is done now.