Nvidia Blackwell Architecture Speculation

[Krteq]

There is a new feature called "Smooth Motion" exclusive to Blackwell. It seems to do the same thing as AMD Fluid Motion Frames or Lossless Scaling.

NVIDIA App Update Adds DLSS 4 Overrides, New Broadcast Update, Improvements To RTX Video Super Resolution & More

Also: NVIDIA Broadcast adds new AI-powered effects, NVIDIA Smooth Motion introduces a driver-based AI model that delivers smoother gameplay in many games by inferring an additional frame between two rendered frames, and Control Panel options for Advanced Optimus and Multiple Display management...

www.nvidia.com

There are some raised eyebrows regarding compatibility issues

But unlike AFMF, which is completely transparent for 3D applications and completely hidden inside the driver, due to some reason NVIDIA decided to implement Smooth Motion as 3D application hook. So it will be compatibility hell, if you try to combine Smooth Motion with third party overlays. Attempt to use most of them will just crash game and require implementing special compatibility path inside overlays for NVIDIA Smooth Motion:

MSI Afterburner 4.6.6 Beta 5 for NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5000 series cards

MSI Afterburner beta for NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5000 series cards will be published in the next few days. It will be possible to download it here, at...

forums.guru3d.com

 

[DavidGraham]

DSOG found that NVIDIA's Motion Smoothness works better than Lossless Scaling or AFMF because:

It does not de-activate itself during fast motions.
Has fewer visual artifacts.
Works with VRR.
It has a very small impact on input latency (Reflex is forced on).

We've tried NVIDIA Smooth Motion, here are our thoughts

Last week, NVIDIA launched a new feature for the RTX50 series GPUs, similar to AMD's AFMF, called Smooth Motion. So, let's take a look at it.

www.dsogaming.com

 

[Potato Head]

The actual 4090 that was released doesn't scale as well through overclocking alone, but I think it's plausible that at some point Nvidia considered a higher TDP 4090 or 4090 Ti that not only had higher clocks, but also a fully-enabled AD102 die, and maybe even extra-fast 24Gbps GDDR6X.

The 4090 has a hard power limit of 600 watts. People just misunderstood what that meant and started posting that it was a 600 watt card.

 

[Cyan]

DSOG found that NVIDIA's Motion Smoothness works better than Lossless Scaling or AFMF because:

It does not de-activate itself during fast motions.
Has fewer visual artifacts.
Works with VRR.
It has a very small impact on input latency (Reflex is forced on).

We've tried NVIDIA Smooth Motion, here are our thoughts

Last week, NVIDIA launched a new feature for the RTX50 series GPUs, similar to AMD's AFMF, called Smooth Motion. So, let's take a look at it.

www.dsogaming.com

wish they add that on a global basis, using a profile can be a pita, because that's a very good technology to use. That being said, I dunno about AFMF but lossless scaling uses VRR that's for sure, and it's quite noticeable.

 

[Kaotik]

DSOG found that NVIDIA's Motion Smoothness works better than Lossless Scaling or AFMF because:

It does not de-activate itself during fast motions.
Has fewer visual artifacts.
Works with VRR.
It has a very small impact on input latency (Reflex is forced on).

We've tried NVIDIA Smooth Motion, here are our thoughts

Last week, NVIDIA launched a new feature for the RTX50 series GPUs, similar to AMD's AFMF, called Smooth Motion. So, let's take a look at it.

www.dsogaming.com

Did they remember to mention it's implemented via hook which means it's going to cause problems with many overlays and most likely anti-cheats?

 

[Cynicalking]

Did they remember to mention it's implemented via hook which means it's going to cause problems with many overlays and most likely anti-cheats?

Yes they did mention it didn't work with overlays and without a profile in the drivers.

 

[Potato Head]

Did they remember to mention it's implemented via hook which means it's going to cause problems with many overlays and most likely anti-cheats?

Yes, they did. Do you recall Nvidia mentioning that they are testing and white listing games because they don’t want any accidental bans?

 

[Kaotik]

Yes, they did. Do you recall Nvidia mentioning that they are testing and white listing games because they don’t want any accidental bans?

The question is why? Why implement it via hook with known compatibility issues? AMD did it right from the start, completely transparent for the app and compatible with everything.

 

[Potato Head]

The question is why? Why implement it via hook with known compatibility issues? AMD did it right from the start, completely transparent for the app and compatible with everything.

Huh? Are we talking about the same feature that AMD pulled after release because of all the player bans that occurred after it was enabled?

I mean, yeah, I wouldn’t do it that way either!

 

[TopSpoiler]

I'm guessing because Smooth Motion also needs access to motion vector and depth buffer, not only final frame buffer.

 

[Kaotik]

Huh? Are we talking about the same feature that AMD pulled after release because of all the player bans that occurred after it was enabled?

I mean, yeah, I wouldn’t do it that way either!

No, you're thinking of initial Anti-Lag 2 implementation which was stupid.

Smooth Vision is NVIDIAs answer for AMD Fluid Motion Frames aka AFMF.
AMDs implementation works with anything DX11/12/Vulkan/OpenGL and is completely transparent for the games (heck, you can even extend the support to DX9/10 titles with DXVK)

I'm guessing because Smooth Motion also needs access to motion vector and depth buffer, not only final frame buffer.

Source?

 

[homerdog]

I'm guessing because Smooth Motion also needs access to motion vector and depth buffer, not only final frame buffer.

I thought the point of Smooth Motion was that it didn't need that stuff, so it can work in more games? Similar to Lossless Scaling. At least I think that's the case with Lossless Scaling.

 

[TopSpoiler]

I thought the point of Smooth Motion was that it didn't need that stuff, so it can work in more games? Similar to Lossless Scaling. At least I think that's the case with Lossless Scaling.

I think NVIDIA didn't want Smooth Motion to be just another LS or AMFM, but wanted to provide FG with better image quality than LS/AMFM in games that don't support DLSS FG, with some additional limitations.

 

[Kaotik]

I think NVIDIA didn't want Smooth Motion to be just another LS or AMFM, but wanted to provide FG with better image quality than LS/AMFM in games that don't support DLSS FG, with some additional limitations.

Still waiting for that source for needing depth & motion vectors

 

[TopSpoiler]

Still waiting for that source for needing depth & motion vectors

I said 'guess'.

Edit: To add a little more evidence to my guess, some game filters require access to the game's depth buffer and cannot be used in games where that is not possible. It's reasonable to expect that Smooth Motion will also use additional data from the game in that way.

 

[Cappuccino]

Will we see a future where high end gaming PCs have to be connected to 240V outlets like you use for your dryer? A PC with a 5090 and 14900K could already use half the continuous capacity (80%) of a 120V 20A breaker.

I doubt it. I bet we will see the top tier of power usage coincidentally level out at where consumers think is reasonable for consumer electric loads. 90% of household circuits are 15A and are shared with a few other loads, so I bet we don't go far above 1000W, continuously.

most countries outside the americas and japan have almost double the voltage

Right but I don't think manufacturers are going to release hardware that you need to modify home wiring in the US to use.

 

[Bludd]

Right but I don't think manufacturers are going to release hardware that you need to modify home wiring in the US to use.

no thats why you either change everything in the us or japan OR move

 

[trinibwoy]

The 40 series has essentially vanished from shelves in the US and apparently the 50 series is still somewhere on the factory floor. Has this situation happened before where Nvidia has nothing to sell especially on a mature node? Not situations like covid where demand is just out of control but literally having nothing to sell. They provided early warning in the last earnings call but even 4060’s are drying up and their replacements aren’t expected for a few more months at best.

 

[GhostofWar]

I guess we will probably need to wait for next quarter financials to get an idea of the supply of gpu's they had, with no lovelace stock anywhere we should just be able to assume most of it is blackwell. I'm also assuming they still list gaming hardware revenue as I havn't looked at their quarterly reports for a while.

 

[DegustatoR]

even 4060’s are drying up and their replacements aren’t expected for a few more months at best

A month actually.