Series X Refresh and Next Generation Xbox Hardware

[eastmen]

Those are the things that peak my curiosity too. Even with internal studios though, they'll be on Series consoles for at least another game or two. It precludes going all out on something like that unless we get those sort of NPCs in smaller projects from the likes of Obsidian and Ninja Theory.

(Without veering OT, I do think we'll still see smaller and medium sized projects from MS Studios)

It doesn't have to be that way. Xbox 360 games didn't show up on the Xbox and Switch games didn't show up on the wii u.

IF MS breaks out of generations they can simply move past the series consoles quickly. That or mark games that require specialized hardware to xcloud only on the series. The other option would be to simply remove the functionality and allow the AI stuff only on pc and xbox next

Infact that third option is a way to squash them going 3rd party rumors. If the ai functionality requires an NPU or AMD NPU cores or Functionality only on RDNA4/5 that PS5 Pro and switch 2 don't have then there isn't much of an issue. Buy Xbox Next /xcloud /pc(with an npu or amd cpu or something) to get AI companions in Elder Scrolls 7 or play it on xbox series without the AI tech and then 2 years later on ps5 pro without the ai tech.

 

[QPlayer]

IF MS breaks out of generations they can simply move past the series consoles quickly. That or mark games that require specialized hardware to xcloud only on the series. The other option would be to simply remove the functionality and allow the AI stuff only on pc and xbox next

Infact that third option is a way to squash them going 3rd party rumors. If the ai functionality requires an NPU or AMD NPU cores or Functionality only on RDNA4/5 that PS5 Pro and switch 2 don't have then there isn't much of an issue. Buy Xbox Next /xcloud /pc(with an npu or amd cpu or something) to get AI companions in Elder Scrolls 7 or play it on xbox series without the AI tech and then 2 years later on ps5 pro without the ai tech.

This. I would put a good amount of money on it now that it will be so.

 

[rntongo]

Looks like MS changed a lot of its plans. They havent invested a dime in making the Series X cheaper to produce yet that was the plan according to the FTC leaks. Its unbelievable Sony has continuously made their system cheaper to produce while the Series X which is less in demand hasnt had the same. You'd think MS would want to save some money but seems they are neglecting the hw division so much. The fact the refresh is just a discless Series X with the rest the same makes me wonder.Maybe next year they'll release a cheaper build Series X?

 

[Charlietus]

Looks like MS changed a lot of its plans. They havent invested a dime in making the Series X cheaper to produce yet that was the plan according to the FTC leaks. Its unbelievable Sony has continuously made their system cheaper to produce while the Series X which is less in demand hasnt had the same. You'd think MS would want to save some money but seems they are neglecting the hw division so much. The fact the refresh is just a discless Series X with the rest the same makes me wonder.Maybe next year they'll release a cheaper build Series X?

That's unbelievable that they still have done nothing. Even with marketing cuts, budget cuts and all of that, why wouldn't you want to make the consoles that you are selling cheaper to make? I guess they are free to keep losing more money than necessary.

 

[cheapchips]

That's unbelievable that they still have done nothing. Even with marketing cuts, budget cuts and all of that, why wouldn't you want to make the consoles that you are selling cheaper to make? I guess they are free to keep losing more money than necessary.

It costs money to die shrink, redesign motherboards, retool casing etc. Sony are confident that they'll sell tens of millions more for each design change. Xbox can't be so confident. It's not as if Sony is passing on those saving to consumers. It's mostly just making the PS5 a bit more profitable.

 

[Charlietus]

It costs money to die shrink, redesign motherboards, retool casing etc. Sony are confident that they'll sell tens of millions more for each design change. Xbox can't be so confident. It's not as if Sony is passing on those saving to consumers. It's mostly just making the PS5 a bit more profitable.

With the dual motherboard design and that shape, the series x is could be cost reduced even more than the PS5. Just make it like the Xbox one x, but bigger. Big rectangle.

At the end of the day, I can't know the real costs of doing things like that, but that Microsoft really doesn't try anything is strange.

 

[rntongo]

It costs money to die shrink, redesign motherboards, retool casing etc. Sony are confident that they'll sell tens of millions more for each design change. Xbox can't be so confident. It's not as if Sony is passing on those saving to consumers. It's mostly just making the PS5 a bit more profitable.

Valid points

With the dual motherboard design and that shape, the series x is could be cost reduced even more than the PS5. Just make it like the Xbox one x, but bigger. Big rectangle.

At the end of the day, I can't know the real costs of doing things like that, but that Microsoft really doesn't try anything is strange.

Also valid points. Its very strange.

 

[QPlayer]

It is easy to imagine that the two types of Series X and a Series S version released again in October will be enough. Several big games are coming out this year, in fact, in terms of games, this will be the strongest season for MS in recent years. Compared to overpriced competition consoles
with even such a small change and a nicer price, the Xbox Series can be surprisingly successful.

 

[XboxKING]

At the end of the day, I can't know the real costs of doing things like that, but that Microsoft really doesn't try anything is strange.

That is just how Microsoft operates and makes decisions;

“This will cost us so and so much and it will save us money starting in 1-2 years and it will be better for the future”
-“Don’t do it if it costs us money, instead fire 700 developers, that saves us money directly”
“I already did that?”
-“That was two weeks ago, I mean, like right now, find another 700 developers and fire them”
“Consider it done!”

 

[Proelite]

That is just how Microsoft operates and makes decisions;

In their defense, they finally learned not to fire developers...

Lol

 

[iroboto]

A move to 6nm finallly
Cheaper heat sink
Lower voltage
Same temps and noise

Curious to see if MS also did a hidden clock boost on this one. Won’t be possible to tell though without someone diving in deep

 

[Charlietus]

A move to 6nm finallly
Cheaper heat sink
Lower voltage
Same temps and noise

Curious to see if MS also did a hidden clock boost on this one. Won’t be possible to tell though without someone diving in deep

Maddening that it took them this long. They are so slow.

 

[cheapchips]

Maddening that it took them this long. They are so slow.

They've not changed the industrial design, and didn't needed to imo. 6nm is just a cost decision for MS.

 

[see colon]

I whish he would have looked at the sourthbridge to see if it was updated.

 

[Charlietus]

They've not changed the industrial design, and didn't needed to imo. 6nm is just a cost decision for MS.

That's what I'm referencing. 6nm has been available since 2020, and they are taking advantage of it almost 4 years later. So much more money probably lost on so many consoles. Too slow.

 

[iroboto]

That's what I'm referencing. 6nm has been available since 2020, and they are taking advantage of it almost 4 years later. So much more money probably lost on so many consoles. Too slow.

Being available doesn’t make it cheaper for them however. XSX had conservative clocks to increase yield. Silicon size may reduce sure, but it only is beneficial if you can actually get more usable chips per wafer out of it.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

It's also impossible to know the nature of the contracts they had in place with AMD/TSMC. It may be as simple as them being contracted to x number of wafers at 7nm before transitioning to 6nm. It may be that they could have transitioned at any time, but the cost for a 6nm wafer has only recently become more cost effective.

It may even be that they're simply idiots. Once upon a time I'd have said that's unlikely to be the case with a vast corporation, but as time goes on and I become more cynical, I think simple stupidity is a contender more often than we'd hope.

But, ultimately, we just don't have enough information to guage the situation.

 

[Charlietus]

6nm is straight up a "free" upgrade from 7nm. It doesn't even need a new tape out.

 

[cheapchips]

6nm is straight up a "free" upgrade from 7nm. It doesn't even need a new tape out.

Inventory management and supply chains are not at all simple.

 

[Albuquerque]

Yeah, supply chain is hard. Just because you can get one part cheaper doesn't make the TCO go down. Amazon's second largest consumer of EC2 is their own supply chain sourcing department, which is continuously solving the travelling salesman problem for just about every SKU they carry. Where do they source it from, how is it transported, what tarrifs might apply, where is it warehoused, and who is buying it and where do they generally live? I happen to know the guy who runs the department, and despite how much money they spend on compute (tens of millions per month) they make it back a hundredfold or more every year just making sure supply chain is actually working at peak efficiency.