[PS3] Ratchet & Clank Future: A Crack in Time

Demo's on PS3 sound like they're generally gimped - too short and too limited. The few PSP demos I tried were the same. Not the way to sell your product IMO.

I can't say that I agree with that, with maybe the Heavenly Sword demo excepted (it should have had a tiny sixaxis section). Certainly in this Ratchet demo you get a fair number of different things to do (rails, top down platforming, regular platforming, over-the-shoulder options, quite a few different enemies, etc), with four weapons to boot, among which the famed disco ball, and the turn enemies into pinguins one (you can even combine the two). And it ends with a controll your fall with the sixaxis section. If this is the first 10 minutes of the game, it certainly gives the impression of being pretty varied.
 
Demo's on PS3 sound like they're generally gimped - too short and too limited. The few PSP demos I tried were the same. Not the way to sell your product IMO.
Demos in general tend to be short and gimped, excepting those in PC land. (Since historically they've longer and more involved games in general, and have been sold off their multiplayer experiences for a lot longer.) This includes all the disc demos we've seen packaged with magazines in previous generations, too.

I don't have experience with the sum total of 360 demos (though playing with a friend in the Eternal Sonata demo makes me think it's just fine), but on the PS3 you have your short and crap (like The Simpsons game, which gives you one board, but tosses you in rather arbitrarily), your short and sweet (meaning "too short for how sweet it is," like Heavenly Sword), and your perfectly acceptable, like Folklore (especially since it now has two, the new one delivering an enhanced version of the Prologue of the release) and Stranglehold and Skate. I count the Ratchet and Clank demo among their number, as it delivered one level, but showed how varied even one level could be. It would certainly have been better delivered with an extra couple weapons (one involving the Sixaxis would be nice), and letting you actually go through the boss battle at the end of the level, instead of stopping right before it, but that doesn't make it a poor demo.


Most are simply... unimaginative and unstructured. I can play certain demos for a long time (say, Virtua Tennis) and get a very good feel for the general play of the game, and all they really do is limit your selectable characters and exclude a few modes. (Most games on console seem to limit any online multiplayer right now. That's one thing I wish they'd take a cue from PC's on. Why did I buy Battlefield 2 immediately...? Because I could PLAY an unrestricted Battlefield 2 board for as long as I wanted.) It's potentially long, but doesn't amount to a very enticing demo.

Even among the unimaginative, however, you can still get "enough." Most of the sports and racing titles give you a single game mode or a single board/track, and let you play as much as you want of it with a small subset of the playable characters/teams/cars/etc. But that can still get across a good feel for the game, as you know you'll be getting "more" from the release, but that it basically plays the same. (Those would especially benefit from demo multiplayer servers, however, so you can judge what online play will be like in as far as matchup and performance goes...)


Developers (though probably more the publishers) would certainly be better off spending more effort and delivering a tighter, longer, more interesting demo, but most haven't learned that yet. Publishers seem to think that a demo you push more resources into better demo will cost them on the front end AND counteract sales advantages by "giving people enough of the game to satisfy, so they won't bother buying the game." Frankly, I think it has a much larger effect of not only adding sales, but enticing the people who would likely pick up the game at some point regardless purchase it earlier at full price, instead of waiting. Case in point (or at least "anecdote" ;) ), I have almost no interest in alternative sports titles at all, but I find myself going back to the Skate demo frequently because the delivered an in-depth tutorial and familiarization with the game, and gave plenty of time for me to play around by myself, unguided and uninterrupted, and a good-sized sandbox. It will probably be one of my next purchases in general, and really the first of that type of game I've purchased for any system at all.

My hope has gone up for demo quality, now that the systems can deliver them quickly, easily, and cheaply over network, though, and I've seen some improvements already. Hopefully the living and learning will continue on. ;)
 
I can't say that I agree with that, with maybe the Heavenly Sword demo excepted (it should have had a tiny sixaxis section). Certainly in this Ratchet demo you get a fair number of different things to do (rails, top down platforming, regular platforming, over-the-shoulder options, quite a few different enemies, etc), with four weapons to boot, among which the famed disco ball, and the turn enemies into pinguins one (you can even combine the two). And it ends with a controll your fall with the sixaxis section. If this is the first 10 minutes of the game, it certainly gives the impression of being pretty varied.

Arwin, just to clarify. I am refering to the "meta" level... so to speak. It is something the new PSN community manager needs to take care of (I think), not Insomniac per se.

The organization/classfication of all the demoes (e.g., how easy to find them), the structure of individual demoes need to be reviewed. The entire "system" should assist newcomers as well as experienced gamers to evaluate these games in their truest/best form. Some more material might be needed to complement the demoes.

Then for each demo, they should have some objectives in mind (usually it's to sell the game :) ). The R&C demo is very polished, but it's short changing itself by not surfacing its strongest elements. So strangers to the series may go away unimpressed. But for people who are already familiar with the franchise, they have a lot more context to lean on.

Finally, the PS3 is also unique in the sense that it has a lot of consumer/marketing tools in place already, but Sony and the devs are not using them to their full potential yet. The closed-loop pre-order scenario I mentioned above is just an example.

These enhancements will apply to everything Sony sell over the digital platform. I heard some ramblings about PSN upgrade much earlier on. Perhaps Sony is already looking into them (or not).

But at this moment, the R&C demo (and a few others) is skin deep compared to what I see in trailers and previews.
 
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Also to clarify, I think the R&C demo is shortchanging itself as well... but that still doesn't stop it from being one of the better demos out there. ;)

Kinda serves to put the other demos in perspective, really, that R&C can deliver more fun and versatility in a PART of one of its' levels with a tiny fraction of the available weapons (some 10% or so?) than they can by letting you play for half an hour.

The frustration with the R&C demo simply comes from knowing how much MORE they could have packed into a demo of equal length, and IMHO, how much more likely you'd find people rushing to pick it up because of that.
 
Well yeah when you know the final game has 31 weapons...then I don't think we should worry about the demo.

Plus, I imagine, the usual second-playthrough bonus weapons. The demo weapons were poorly chosen though; Both weapons lacked any charisma, and the two devices had too little ammo to really play around with.

As to demos in general, Blue Dragon's was exceptionally bad. Irritating characters, boring level design and levels, and the characters were leveled so high the gameplay systems were stripped of any context. I've heard good things from players, but the demo left such a bad taste in my mouth I doubt I'll even rent it.
 
Doing very well then so far ... Well done again Insomniac!
 
Some good reviews there, I see the no multiplayer gripe keeps resurfacing though.

It's a shame, surely these reviewers should start to realise soon that most people couldn't actually give two hoots about multiplayer/online sections in games.

Isn't Live Gold take up only about half of 360 owners? PSN, despite being completely free, only has about 60~70% take up as well doesn't it?
 
Isn't Live Gold take up only about half of 360 owners? PSN, despite being completely free, only has about 60~70% take up as well doesn't it?

So that would clearly be 'most people' then?

The reviews are looking good!

Now where is my #%!$@ demo...
 
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So that would clearly be 'most people' then?
Most accounts aren't for online gaming though. You have multiple accounts to access different region's contents along with accounts either opened out of curiosity to never be used, or to gain access to download titles and the like without regard for online gaming. If there's 50% as many accounts as there are numbers of XB360s sold, you can be certain that nothing like 50% of those are online gamers.

My real gripe is the assumption that all games should have online components. What the hell would RnC online be? How would multiplayer work? The game isn't at all designed for that, and what you'd need is some add-on; a bunch of multiplayer, online content that isn't the game. In the same way Warhawk sacrificed the single player for online, you'd expect some titles to sacrifice online for single player. That has to be better than a half-baked single player experience coupled with a gimp'd online. Does Folklore have online? Oblivion? Bioshock? Anyone complaining there? Asking for online and multiplayer with RnC is like asking for chocolate sauce with you steak dinner. Chocolate sauce is great with ice-cream and sponge puddings, but you don't want it with absolutely everything. I dare say reviewers are sometimes caught up in easy criticisms, perhaps just to try and appear balanced. "We've got to find something to complain about!" Online and multiplayer are easy targets, but misplaced. You may as well lament the absence of ridable ponies, collectable monsters, first-person viewpoint and racing cars, all of which are just as inappropriate for the type of game that RnC is! Insomniac did multiplayer online with R:FoM already!
 
There's a small flaw in your reasoning though Shifty, which is that Rachett on PS2 actually had some very cool online stuff, some of which ended up in Resistance. In fact, the PSP version of Ratchett has online play, if I remember correctly. And there were some pretty cool things in there too. However, I think they could certainly have done some cool online stuff, but they quite simply didn't have time, and it is actually true that most people still prefer to have a good single player campaign (they learnt this last time on the PS2, where the single player clearly suffered from all the work that went into creating the online bits which then ended up being played very little, even though they were great fun), so I think they made the right decision.

So I agree with you in the main, but considering that online was present in the previous PS2 R&C game, it's a little more understandable that it comes up in reviews then for a game like, say, Heavenly Sword, which has no such precedent. ;)

Incidentally, I personally actually hope they do bring back online play for Ratchet & Clank in the next version. One of my favorite online things ever - even if I haven't actually been able to try this myself I just loved seeing it in action - were the gravity boots that you could use to walk on walls and ceilings in Multiplayer levels.

A really well-implemented online platformer could do some really original things. R&C Online on PS2 leaned perhaps a little too much towards FPS style gaming, but it was still very good. I'm sure that with a little more imagination and creativity could end up with some really cool new and original game modes.
 
Well, for me the last Ratchet game almost killed my interest in the series.

It's no surprise when you look back at the ratings (only checked IGN, but I expect others reflect the result) Ratchet 1, 2 and 3 all score over 9, getting higher marks with each release (9.2, 9.4 and 9.6 respectively), then comes Commando, and it scores 8.8.

So they made an "online" version and reviewers didn't like it, now they are moaning about it not being there in the new game. :LOL:

I can only applaud Insomniac for taking the series back to what made it a worthwhile game in the first place.
 
My real gripe is the assumption that all games should have online components. What the hell would RnC online be? How would multiplayer work?

Well R&Cs have fast paced combat, so it's totally possible to have competitive online (as in Up Your Arsenal and Deadlocked). But I agree with your comment mostly because when people talk about online, they often mention co-op, which wouldn't work for games like R&C and Uncharted.

For me, lack of multiplayer is a little disappointing, especially since Insomniac is great at that, but multiplayer design and balancing is not an easy work so I'd much prefer they allocate resources to Resistance 2. After all, Insomniac plans to deliver excellent titles yearly. Also for some weird reason R&C is primarily seen as a kiddie game, which would undoubtedly damage the overall online experience.

In the end though, even if one doesn't play online often, games with online components are more likely to be bought and kept.
 
Maybe I'm totally out of the loop? Are there any multiplayer platformers? Or anything similar to this, which is really a shooter on platforms? Seems to me the game is too 'messy' for mulitplayer. Two people occupying the same platforms shooting big particle-effect weapons and collecting junk flying everywhere would just be too confusing IMO. How did the online PS2 component work? Was it just versus, like so many online modes?

Multiplayer platform could be good, but I think LBP is the best movement in that direction. Maybe something like the Vikings with 3 different characters would be cool, but in 3D, might be awkward enough to scare away most who'd be interested.
 
There's a small flaw in your reasoning though Shifty, which is that Rachett on PS2 actually had some very cool online stuff, some of which ended up in Resistance. In fact, the PSP version of Ratchett has online play, if I remember correctly. And there were some pretty cool things in there too. However, I think they could certainly have done some cool online stuff, but they quite simply didn't have time, and it is actually true that most people still prefer to have a good single player campaign (they learnt this last time on the PS2, where the single player clearly suffered from all the work that went into creating the online bits which then ended up being played very little, even though they were great fun), so I think they made the right decision.

So I agree with you in the main, but considering that online was present in the previous PS2 R&C game, it's a little more understandable that it comes up in reviews then for a game like, say, Heavenly Sword, which has no such precedent. ;)

Well if we wanted Rachet and Clank to get delayed or a R&C with a half functional multiplayer mode reviwers would have complained about then they should have gone for it.....;)
 
Maybe I'm totally out of the loop? Are there any multiplayer platformers? Or anything similar to this, which is really a shooter on platforms? Seems to me the game is too 'messy' for mulitplayer. Two people occupying the same platforms shooting big particle-effect weapons and collecting junk flying everywhere would just be too confusing IMO. How did the online PS2 component work? Was it just versus, like so many online modes?

Multiplayer platform could be good, but I think LBP is the best movement in that direction. Maybe something like the Vikings with 3 different characters would be cool, but in 3D, might be awkward enough to scare away most who'd be interested.

I'm not disagreeing with you (Vikings was a cool idea), but want to bring you into the loop anyway. ;)

Here's travelling back in time, to the wonderful year of 2004:

gamespot review of Up-Your-Arsenal said:
While the single-player feels, at times, like a mission pack for Ratchet & Clank 2 instead of an entirely new adventure, the "all-new" development efforts clearly went into Up Your Arsenal's multiplayer component. It allows you to play games in three different modes. Deathmatch and capture the flag are pretty standard takes on pretty standard modes. Siege mode is the most involved of the three. It's essentially a smaller-scale take on Unreal Tournament 2004's onslaught mode. The team-based game gives each side a base and populates the rest of the map with a series of neutral nodes. Capturing a node, which is done by using your wrench to turn a gigantic bolt at the center of each one, puts that outpost's turret on your side, and it also delivers occasional items and vehicles. You can also spawn from any node that your team controls, should you die. The object is to destroy the opposing team's base defenses, make your way inside its base, and destroy its power source. Doing so ends play. While siege mode won't feel too new to players who have played the similar mode in UT2004, this is the first time such a mode has found its way on to the PlayStation 2. You can play the multiplayer on a four-way split-screen--if you have a multitap--but this pales in comparison to the eight-way matches that are possible online. The online mode has a good number of options overall, and the game does a great job with stat-tracking. The multiplayer gameplay itself isn't the deepest mode in the world, since a great deal of the on-foot combat strategy boils down to doing sideways strafe jumps to avoid getting hit, but it's definitely fun and brings some additional variety to the game.
 
Isn't Live Gold take up only about half of 360 owners? PSN, despite being completely free, only has about 60~70% take up as well doesn't it?
The last number I've seen published mentioned about 7 million Live accounts, but I don't think we've seen anything mentioning the specific number of active Gold subscribers to know where that stands.

A lot of people still don't have their consoles hooked up to do much online, and you can't tell how many people of the "online account totals" listed actually play online versus using it for updates, demos, and downloadable content, and I don't suppose we'll ever know for sure. (Usually you just see activity on a game-specific basis, and only if they're doing particularly well to make it worth crowing about.) So in a way, it's annoying to see some people make a big deal out of games needing to have ANY form of online mode... Still, online capability is about as intrinsic as with the PC right now, and one has a tendency to see online play being the mainstay of many-if-not-most PC games, and not just that they "need to include one" in general.

In R&C's case, though, I think they're just expressing the disappointment of non-inclusion due to Insomniac's track record with them. Up Your Arsenal and Deadlocked had fun, lively multiplayer in the relative dearth of online PS2 play, and Size Matters is one of the few PSP games to include Infrastructure multiplayer. Certainly Insomniac has shown a desire to include, and ABILITY to include good multiplayer in R&C, and effectively launched the PS3 with "still the best multiplayer experience" in Resistance.

Personally, though, I assume it's coming for Tools of Destruction, and not going to wait for the next R&C title to include it. Likely, emphasis was on getting the primary R&C experience well polished and out the door for the holidays, and trying to get equally-well polished multiplayer (which is all Insomniac would be satisfied with, IMHO) would have delayed the title unacceptably (to Sony). But unlike the PS2, they can deliver it a few months from now if they want... hopefully for free, but I'm pretty sure people would be willing to shell out for it, and perhaps a few extra side-missions or bonus modes for the main game as well.
 
Why is this called a platformer anyway? Judging from the demo, there little (controlled) jumping and a lot of shooting...
 
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