XBotz people: you better read this if you expect 6GHz CPU...

[Grall]

The original diagram mentions a "140W barrier". Why is 140W a barrier? The limit of silicon thermal conductivity?

Thermal conductivity isn't measured in watts. Watts is the unit for power output of a device, and the temperature of any given thing is a function of the power output spread out across its surface area. A die the size of your thumb drawing 140W will not be nearly as hot as a die the size of your little fingernail also drawing 140W. Besides, supercomputers have dies drawing (probably much) more than 140W. Cray has a system using liquid direct-die phase-change cooling where flourinex is sprayed onto the chip from a nozzle and then sucked away through a hose (it's a closed-cycle system of course).

A power dissipation figure of 140W isn't probably so much a problem PER SE, the problem comes from having it in a standard PC system with all kinds of different-branded equipment supporting that monster of a chip, like power supplies that must meet specs, both case PSU and the dc-to-dc converters on the board itself, overall board layout and quality with sufficient use of capacitors etc. Also, you gotta get rid of all that power once it has been converted into heat somehow...

Currently we usually just let all the thermal energy waft around inside the case so it gets nice and toasty inside until the air trickles out with the help of a fan or two, we really need a new chassis standard to replace the aging ATX system, one that allows for fresh air intake ducts and hot air exhaust ducts too, and more space around the video card also.

Problem with a 140W+ chip in a hopefully rather small consumer device (rather than the space shuttle carrier-crawler-sized device the current XB is), is apart from pure cost in the form of high-capacity power supplies and cooling solutions, but also what happens when the thing gets clogged up with dust after two years of constant use with a high-CFM fan running inside it? What happens if Little Timmy takes his XB2 in under the covers with him so the family doesn't see him gaming when he should be in bed, or if Mom covers it with a nice decorative cloth, or if Dad sticks it in the bookcase and piles lots of other crap around it? Will it cook itself and die or eventually even catch fire?

Can we trust an automatic thermal regulation circuit to shut things down if it gets too hot, or do we simply need to limit the power output of the thing altogether?


*G*

 

[chaphack]

It's so typical of you to start this Sony sh*t when the thread has nothing to do with PS3 or anything like that.

Why? Is it not true that the ones who assume XB2 to go PC ala XB1, mainly from the "PSFool" groupies? Not saying XB2 wont go PC again(much less the 6Ghz Tejas), but at least "Xbotz" arent throwing up arms in confirmation.

Is someone 'fraid/insecure/confused, that bleeding edge PC tech, will once again outgun some in development since 2001 hypCrboLLE tech?

All I'm doing is saying it's completely unrealistic to expect 6GHz CPUs in a console and anyone suggesting we're gonna see such CPUs in XB2 is in dire need of a reality-check. Of course you choose to miss the point completely and instead go off on a ranting-spree.

As I said, how typical. Kinda shows who's the REAL f*nboy around here...

With a kickass title like yours, i wonder whos the REAL fanny . I am not missing any point, you are just lame. Period. Cant wait for my next Sony topic.

You still don't get it, do you? It's not the caches that are sucking up all the power (though they do consume their fair share). It's the brute clock speed combined with sheer number of transistors that exacts such power requirements

When i meant "Celeron", i meant a notebook like portable mobile CPU. Then again, i have never put into stone that Tejas will be inside XB2...

You want a GPU and HD that will consume even less power? The GPU will be the topmost component that will make or break the XBox2 (the big "wad" of power eating silicon), and you want to scale back its power consumption?!

Eh no. I simply meant the whole system designed to dissipate heat better/more suited for next gen power usage. The same thing that future PC casings will have to look into.

In the end, water cooling doesn't solve any problem here. You still need to dissipate that heat from the water (or whatever is sinking it from the CPU), and THAT is the dealbreaker issue here.

It will solve something if it does it job well. I leave that to MS design team. Then again, why do PS fannies like to confirmly assume something, every little thing being true....?

You think silver material is going to make the homerun? Copper is where it's at. The best that silver will do is buy you another 2% of thermal capability. That's a pathetic improvement for what would turn out to be a $300 heatsink. Even copper is mighty expensive, and you're going to need pounds of it to effectively shed 120+ W of heat.

I was just picking the best plausable material that we so often heard of in the many HSF reviews.

You mean one that blows like a banshee? So much for a quiet console

Did you want to them to be "kickass" or silent? You want one to magically be both? You might be better off hoping for that 5 lb silver heatsink that only costs 10 bucks...

Sound proof the innards?

Better just forget the outer case altogether.

Just like future PCs...

Yeah, forget about a 6 Ghz monster CPU. Exactly, so the "heat" problem just got 2x worse, after considering this 6 GHz CPU notion.

Tell that to say Grall or someone else. Still i guess PCs are going to suddenly die out because 2x heat is TEH SUCKOR!!! WE CANNOT HANDLE IToR! All hail the new king for multimedia --- THE CELLSTATION!!!! Super cool, super cold, super CELLTASTIC!

 

[Paul]

Just like future PCs...

Not a chance

 

[notAFanB]

With a kickass title like yours, i wonder whos the REAL fanny . I am not missing any point, you are just lame. Period. Cant wait for my next Sony topic.

so your gonna fight fire with fire?

When i meant "Celeron", i meant a notebook like portable mobile CPU. Then again, i have never put into stone that Tejas will be inside XB2...

pls reread his post, 'mobile' version lag behind in performence and take awhile to reach the market. in any case unlikely really high clocked CPU's with low PWR consumption will make to any console.

It will solve something if it does it job well. I leave that to MS design team. Then again, why do PS fannies like to confirmly assume something, every little thing being true....?

what? the problem is not conduction, that issue to solvable. it's heat dissiptation. hence your bolt a water cooler type device is not adding anything useful.

Sound proof the innards?

and suffocate the PCB's....... 8)

Tell that to say Grall or someone else. Still i guess PCs are going to suddenly die out because 2x heat is TEH SUCKOR!!! WE CANNOT HANDLE IToR! All hail the new king for multimedia --- THE CELLSTATION!!!! Super cool, super cold, super CELLTASTIC!

where did he say that? oh the the CELL put down, nice touch I guess this thread is locked.

PS: I realised that you were effetively attacked early on in this thread, but legible responses are still appreciated.

 

[Paul]

You can't lock the thread, because you see.. our moderators have vanished. Sonic did atleast.

 

[randycat99]

When i meant "Celeron", i meant a notebook like portable mobile CPU. Then again, i have never put into stone that Tejas will be inside XB2...

Then you should have just said, "portable mobile CPU". Clearly, you were referring to a "lower cost Tejas" ala Celeron style, which typically means castrated L2 cache, that operates at the target 6 GHz. Just admit you hadn't the foggiest clue about what you were suggesting, instead of going through the, "well I really meant this" BS.

Eh no. I simply meant the whole system designed to dissipate heat better/more suited for next gen power usage. The same thing that future PC casings will have to look into.

Wow, brilliant idea then! Hardly worth making a bullet point out of it.

It will solve something if it does it job well. I leave that to MS design team.

Wow, brilliant idea then! Hardly worth making a bullet point out of it. Basically, you thought "water" would be a cool touch to mention- no idea how or why it works. The bottomline is, water is good for transferring heat. It doesn't magically dissipate heat by itself. Once you heat the water, you have to find a way to cool the water. Otherwise it won't be useful for cooling the CPU any further. Lemme guess, you would find plugging your Xbox into an outboard water supply and draining into a kitchen sink like a dishwasher an acceptable scheme just to make your 6 GHz Xbox CPU a possibility?

Then again, why do PS fannies like to confirmly assume something, every little thing being true....?

I wish this meant something in english.

I was just picking the best plausable material that we so often heard of in the many HSF reviews.

As already stated, silver is worth maybe another 2% of performance. Hardly worth the extreme cost increase. Just admit you hadn't the foggiest idea about what you were suggesting.

Sound proof the innards?

Simple enough. Oops! Soundproofing requires space- a lot of it to be effective. Space is something you aren't going to find a lot of in an XBox sort of device. ...unless you are predicting XBox2 to appear in a full-size PC case? Is that what you really want?

Still i guess PCs are going to suddenly die out because 2x heat is TEH SUCKOR!!! WE CANNOT HANDLE IToR! All hail the new king for multimedia --- THE CELLSTATION!!!! Super cool, super cold, super CELLTASTIC!

No one was saying it could or could not be done in a PC case. It is just a bit implausible for a compact XBox case profile. Read this over and over until you actually get the point. Otherwise don't bother continuing to post. Maybe PC's won't be dying out, but it's certainly possible they might be topping out w/o some radical developments in heat transfer technology or Intel wakes up from its mad quest for clockrate and giant chips.

 

[notAFanB]

oh Mods WHY HATH THOU FORSKEN US!!!

 

[chaphack]

Oh boy, just lock this topic already mods. I am not going to argue silly and pointless stuffs that are only given birth by some overzealous fannies' hate.

No, and i dont consider myself to be owned. Unless we get a more civil topic, this thread is not worth my time. NEXT.

 

[chaphack]

notAfanB, check yeay PM.

 

[randycat99]

No need to lock at all. If Chap could just leave or stop posting (and read for once), the rest of us could proceed with useful discussion on this certainly fertile topic.

 

[notAFanB]

maybe if everyone won't try and refrain from veiled attacks at Chap. we wouldn't escalate the thread to a shtfest.

*pause*.........or maybe not.

 

[chaphack]

So says the PSTools....what is it with Sony fanny anyway? Cant they stand a different view? Cant they take criticism for the crap of a ovehyped HW in the PS2? Cant they take skepticism over the glory of Cell? Whats wrong with speaking up for the Xbox tech? Is because it XB == MS? BILl GaTEs Is TEh Gehy!!!?

I sense fear imo, something about MS overpowering to victory. We know once MS sets their sights, far goeth they. XB, second only to Windows, in importance. The goal has been set! Potential elimination of struggling rivals are far possible than thought.

ANd i am not even a MS fanny! I speak great of Xbox tech only because it delievers. Time to let the wrong hate go.

Lock this topic mods. IF you want to talk about 6Ghz Tejas, at least do without the lame attacklooks at sticky: )

 

[randycat99]

now that all that Lord of the Rings kind of talk is over...

 

[chaphack]

JVD is back! Lock em old great mod!

 

[notAFanB]

So says the PSTools....what is it with Sony fanny anyway? Cant they stand a different view? Cant they take criticism for the crap of a ovehyped HW in the PS2? Cant they take skepticism over the glory of Cell?

so by your token XGH is resonable but any dissertation on CELL (of which is positive) is FnBoy bollocks?

from this board alot of the analysis on CELL (mostly pro although some of DM's post raise concerns), are reasonable and optimistic and don't require gargantuan leaps of faith.

Whats wrong with speaking up for the Xbox tech? Is because it XB == MS? BILl GaTEs Is TEh Gehy!!!?

this isn't about speaking up the tech just for the sake of it. if we use the CELL dillema as an example any negative 'attacks' tend to be the order of Sony suxxxors rather than legit tech concerns. you claim this post is about the same thing but no such attack has been made by the thread starter.

I sense fear imo, something about MS overpowering to victory. We know once MS sets their sights, far goeth they. XB, second only to Windows, in importance. The goal has been set! Potential elimination of struggling rivals are far possible than thought.

yes there is fear, from all sides of the COPORATIONS in question..

ANd i am not even a MS fanny! I speak great of Xbox tech only because it delievers. Time to let the wrong hate go.

good for you, but this thread isn't/wasn't about xbox tech.

Lock this topic mods. IF you want to talk about 6Ghz Tejas, at least do without the lame attacklooks at sticky: )

personall attacks == bad. analysis ==good.

on a side note me like cheesnips.

 

[chaphack]

cant believe you actually quote 1 by 1 of my rants? anyway, check yey PM again.

Lock! Lock! Lock! Lock!

 

[jvd]

You know i hate to side with chap . But when has anyone on this site claimed anything more than 4 ghz (and thats pushing what we have said) for the xbox 2. This thread is very pointless and imho just here to start a flame war. Please Grall do not post this kind of junk again. Esp not with a topic like this .

You have been warned

 

[randycat99]

How much power does a 733 Celeron consume, anyway?

 

[notAFanB]

rants are nice. for the most part.

 

[randycat99]

You know i hate to side with chap . But when has anyone on this site claimed anything more than 4 ghz (and thats pushing what we have said) for the xbox 2.

Believe it or not, the assertion was made just recently. Check the "PS2 dissertation" topic.