XBotz people: you better read this if you expect 6GHz CPU...

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Grall

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Take a look at the projected power consumption of Tejas... At "only" 4.8GHz it's burning an astounding 120W of power. At 6GHz, we'd be looking at CONSIDERABLY MORE. Anyone thinking they're going to get such a CPU in the next XB is plain kidding himself, just the CPU would draw three or four times as much power as an entire XB currently does.

Even Prescott at 3.6GHz is over 100W, which makes me think we'll be lucky to see XB2 come with a process-shrunk 4GHz mobile prescott at 80-ish watts.

All three major console makers are going to need some truly clever cooling solutions for next-gen hardware, that's for sure. Half a kilo's worth of copper/alu heat pipes and sinks don't seem out of the question... :)

EDIT: and DMGA derided Cell for high power consumption when he hasn't the slightest idea how much power Cell will draw... LOL, I must admit that old saying about stones and glass houses comes to mind right now!

*G*
 
The only one who brought up the 6Ghz Tejas thing was Deadmeat ;) We all know that's going to be come a real reality!

Expect a Prescott at around 3-4Ghz. Maybe even a P4.
 
Grall, do you have to adapt this improper behavior. You have a nice point here, but your presentation is ruining it. XBotz? Is that necessary :?
 
Paul said:
The only one who brought up the 6Ghz Tejas thing was Deadmeat ;)

I assumed 6GHz tejas was something tossed around as a 'fact' on xbot-infested boards, but if it's just DM mouthing off, well then it figures I guess. ;)

Expect a Prescott at around 3-4Ghz. Maybe even a P4.

Umm, Prescott IS a P4. :) It's just the codename of the venerable P4 with bigger L1 cache(s?), better hype-threading and SSE3. Maybe some other changes too (TLB cache? Branch predictor?), these should be the big ones though.

ChryZ:

No need to get upset, I didn't mention anyone by name. Unless you are an XBot I didn't mean you!

If the shoe fits however... ;)

I don't think it's wrong to point out to the XBots of the world that they're off their rockers if they expect an 120+ watt CPU to end up in a games console. God knows how much power a GPU capable of matching such a monster CPU would draw, and then we have to add memory as well (which could be quite a lot also!)

If the grand sum of such a system is BELOW 200 watts, we'd probably be very very lucky... In comparison, the venerable NES is less than 8W. :LOL:


*G*
 
Umm, Prescott IS a P4. It's just the codename of the venerable P4 with bigger L1 cache(s?), better hype-threading and SSE3. Maybe some other changes too (TLB cache? Branch predictor?), these should be the big ones though.

Yes but Intel will market it as a P5 :)
 
:LOL: What a lame topic titile, then again seeing the starter, cant say i am surprised. :LOL:

The funny thing is, no "Xbot" is assuming anything about the hardware that will power the XB2. The only ones(or most of them) who did so, are....*drumroollll!* The "PSFools" (!!!), :oops: who readily claimed that "XB2? Bleh! How exciting can it get? Another Intel, another Nvidia, another Windows! :oops: We know whacha MS is goona put inside. Not unlike the PS3! ItS THE C3LL! L33t co00L ubER StuFFs yA say!" :oops:

Anyway, i guess since somehow more wattage used, with more power delivered, is gonna kill off Intel, MS, Nvidia, Real, Apple, ATi, Creative, AMD.. and the list goes on. DEATH TO THE PC!! :cry:
 
Hah, to be fair Chap, you have made the same type of topics and titles.

Anyway, i guess since somehow more wattage used, with more power delivered, is gonna kill off Intel, MS, Nvidia, Real, Apple, ATi, Creative, AMD.. and the list goes on. DEATH TO THE PC!!

PC power supply's are quite different. They are much bigger, and greater powered than anything that would go inside an Xbox.

The thing with XB2 is that you can predict it, we know it will be basically a rush job from the comments of that fries guy "tell us when ps3 is shipping and we will be right there to meet them" we know it will use either a ATI or Nvidia GPU and a decent CPU.

There really just isn't much to get excited about.. Honestly.
 
Lets say, lets just say MS will use that Tejas.

-Ask for a lower powered version(the "Celeron")
-Design the hardware around increased next gen power consumption
-Have water cooling ala the DC
-Have a full silver heatsink with a kickass fan
-Great ventilation
-More silent case fans
-Put the power supply outside the console, ala GC
-Some more suggestions ?

Its no big deal, power consumption will increase as we get smaller and more intensive hardware. Current 3D cards are running what, pretty high wattages, just below 100 mark IIRC.
 
Chap:
It's so typical of you to start this Sony sh*t when the thread has nothing to do with PS3 or anything like that. All I'm doing is saying it's completely unrealistic to expect 6GHz CPUs in a console and anyone suggesting we're gonna see such CPUs in XB2 is in dire need of a reality-check. Of course you choose to miss the point completely and instead go off on a ranting-spree.

As I said, how typical. Kinda shows who's the REAL f*nboy around here...


V3:
Even 5GHz is hoping for too much me thinks if one considers such a CPU will cost about as much as the expected price of the entire console if bought retail. Also, do you seriously expect Intel to be able to supply literally MILLIONS of 5GHz CPUs at XB2 launch?

These things are expensive so not everyone and his uncle will go buy top of the range processors, because Intel and other manufacturers couldn't keep up if they did.


*G*
 
I think people are thinking too much about X-B2 CPU, IMO MS will follow XB1 model which means a top of the line GPU and an average CPU....
 
chaphack said:
Lets say, lets just say MS will use that Tejas.

-Ask for a lower powered version(the "Celeron")

You still don't get it, do you? It's not the caches that are sucking up all the power (though they do consume their fair share). It's the brute clock speed combined with sheer number of transistors that exacts such power requirements.

-Design the hardware around increased next gen power consumption

You want a GPU and HD that will consume even less power? The GPU will be the topmost component that will make or break the XBox2 (the big "wad" of power eating silicon), and you want to scale back its power consumption?!

-Have water cooling ala the DC

It wasn't water cooling. It was a heat-pipe (with water inside it), AFAIK. In the end, water cooling doesn't solve any problem here. You still need to dissipate that heat from the water (or whatever is sinking it from the CPU), and THAT is the dealbreaker issue here.

-Have a full silver heatsink...

You think silver material is going to make the homerun? Copper is where it's at. The best that silver will do is buy you another 2% of thermal capability. That's a pathetic improvement for what would turn out to be a $300 heatsink. Even copper is mighty expensive, and you're going to need pounds of it to effectively shed 120+ W of heat.

...with a kickass fan

You mean one that blows like a banshee? So much for a quiet console.

-Great ventilation

Better just forget the outer case altogether.

-More silent case fans

Did you want to them to be "kickass" or silent? You want one to magically be both? You might be better off hoping for that 5 lb silver heatsink that only costs 10 bucks...

-Put the power supply outside the console, ala GC

Now that is the first plausible idea you've come up with, yet. However, you've just put the heat problem in 2 places instead of just one. You'll have to dissipate 400-ish W in an outboard, and 250-ish W in a console (got to remember the power supply has a power efficiency where 50% is not unusual, at all). That's a lot of fans humming along...

-Some more suggestions ?

Yeah, forget about a 6 Ghz monster CPU. :oops:

Current 3D cards are running what, pretty high wattages, just below 100 mark IIRC.

Exactly, so the "heat" problem just got 2x worse, after considering this 6 GHz CPU notion.
 
ChryZ said:
Grall, do you have to adapt this improper behavior. You have a nice point here, but your presentation is ruining it. XBotz? Is that necessary :?

I think it is a perfectly accurate term, since it is that kind of person that would really be disturbed at the notion that the XBox2 CPU could possibly be a 3 GHz part and not a 6 GHz part. Not all Xbox proponents are XBotz- just those that act a "certain" way.
 
The original diagram mentions a "140W barrier". Why is 140W a barrier? The limit of silicon thermal conductivity?

Also, with regards to silver heatsinks and liquid cooling systems and such - please remember that all this must be in a 300-400 USD machine.
 
6 GHz... even if they made provisions for the heat it would produce, I do not think this is the CPU MS would choose ( I do not even see it available in early 2005, remember Xbox wants to launch in 2005 and they need the component available in large quantities ) as they do not seem to go with the very top of the line CPU, but Xbox 2 would also launch at the same time as PlayStation 3 and they chose the current XCPU because by the time they would have launched that processor would have been cheap and fast enough. Still I do not see a 6 GHz Tejas in Xbox 2, I do not see Intel having it ready at that speed in very large volumes.
 
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