Will Next Gen games have better Framerates on 480i/p TV's?

[London Geezer]

Pal = 50 Hz
Ntsc = 60 Hz.
720p (there is no pal/ntsc in 720p) = 60 Hz

Actually, it doesn't really matter i'm just nitpicking, but to be 100% precise, there IS a PAL HD standard which is just 720p or 1080i running at 50Hz. Or at least, there WAS, before the powers that be woke up and realised it would have been utter stupid to keep the old differences between PAL and NTSC.
So now all HDTVs, be it in the US or Europe or anywhere else, run at 60Hz.

Samsung did release one HD set that was only compatible with 50Hz and needless to say it was a mess because it couldn't even convert 60Hz signals right and the image kept stuttering... Go figure...

 

[sir doris]

OT: LB, but Sky HD is 50Hz, says so on there web site. 720P/50 and 1080i/25 (I think)

 

[London Geezer]

OT: LB, but Sky HD is 50Hz, says so on there web site. 720P/50 and 1080i/25 (I think)

Is it? Strange. Either it's wrong (these websites tend to be made by the cleaning ladies at night) or, well... dunno...

 

[sir doris]

I think it's also been discussed on AVFORUMS and people on there are using the terms 50p and 25i, and they seem quite knowlegable sorts ;P

To be honest I understand Pro scan and interlaced at a basic level but then trying to understand the diff between 100Hz and Pro Scan CRTs and how LCD and plasmas handle interlaced signals and a whole host of other things makes my brain hurt

 

[London Geezer]

I think it's also been discussed on AVFORUMS and people on there are using the terms 50p and 25i, and they seem quite knowlegable sorts ;P

To be honest I understand Pro scan and interlaced at a basic level but then trying to understand the diff between 100Hz and Pro Scan CRTs and how LCD and plasmas handle interlaced signals and a whole host of other things makes my brain hurt

Well ultimately on PAL HDTVs there shouldn't be a problem as they can take 50Hz and 60Hz, and display at higher rates anyway (from 75Hz to 100Hz).

So Sky HD being at 50Hz won't be a problem. It's strange that they're hanging to old NTSC/PAL notions when there really is no need for it.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Ha ha ha ha ha!!! What a stupid mess. Honestly, what's wrong with going with 60 Hz display? Why stick to 50Hz for PAL when the signals all gonna be different anyway? Before there was a resolution/frame rate/signal quality difference between the SD formats. HD does away with that. Just accept a universal 60 Hz and be done with it. Why have it any other way?? There is no benefit whatsoever.

 

[sir doris]

Not wanting to totally hijack this thread but it seems there are very good reasons for sticking with 50Hz, a recent thread on AVForums explains it well. Besides as LB says European TVs will be able to handle 50 and 60Hz

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Kind thanks for the replies.

It's interesting .. thx.

 

[BlueTsunami]

I personally think that there should be a global standard or maybe TVs that can take on different settings.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

At the moment most (every?) new PAL TV takes NTSC as well as PAL signals. It's just the decoding circuitry that needs a little extra. If HDTV support 1280x720 @ 60fps there seems little point to creating a 50 fps standard at the same resolution, though Ihave to check out AVForums apparently...

 

[London Geezer]

At the moment most (every?) new PAL TV takes NTSC as well as PAL signals. It's just the decoding circuitry that needs a little extra. If HDTV support 1280x720 @ 60fps there seems little point to creating a 50 fps standard at the same resolution, though Ihave to check out AVForums apparently...

My only worry is that 50Hz on a pro-scan signal like 720p is horrendous. 60Hz is already borderline bad, imagine 50Hz.
So i'm hoping most displays will upscale the signal to at least 75Hz - LCDs do that, not sure about plasmas.

It's such a big mess around here...

 

[Sis]

I sure won't mind letterbox for a wider field of view...even if the image is slightly smaller. I just need to know if some bugger is in that area and then...BOOMHEADSHOT!

I wonder how FOV will be handled? If I have a 4X3 aspect ratio because I'm on a 480p set, I would hope that I'm not playing against people who have a wider FOV just because they are playing on a 16X9 set.

.Sis

 

[London Geezer]

I wonder how FOV will be handled? If I have a 4X3 aspect ratio because I'm on a 480p set, I would hope that I'm not playing against people who have a wider FOV just because they are playing on a 16X9 set.

.Sis

That's tough for you matey!
Really, there are much bigger probs to worry about than 4:3 and 16:9...

 

[Sis]

That's tough for you matey!
Really, there are much bigger probs to worry about than 4:3 and 16:9...

Oh hells no. I got me a 16X9 set. I was just feeling misplaced compassion for those with 4X3 sets.

.Sis

 

[function]

Oh hells no. I got me a 16X9 set. I was just feeling misplaced compassion for those with 4X3 sets.

.Sis

It would suck for someone, as they wouldn't be able to see things in their FOV that the others could (I guess this is your point!). Let me use 1280 x 768 on my 1280 x 1024 monitor, for the love of god please!

Two good reason for keeping Euro HDTV at 50hz are that:
1) for people watching on a crappy (i.e. standard) 50hz set there won't be jumping from dropping frames, and
2) You can fit more channels in for the same bandwidth at the same resolution.

Perhaps I should read AV forums and find out the rest ...

 

[Helstar]

I wonder ahy they bother with this HD stuff...

Everyone of us has already played a DVD in a 480i TV, right (duh).

Well, NO WAY a game played in 720p will anchieve that picture quality found in a DVD movie (think in a great CG, like Matrix).

IF they cannot even fully utilize the 480i, why the hell would they upgrade the resolution ? Isn´t it pure marketing ??? Why will we play a 1080p game that LOOKS WORSE than a 480i CGI ??? They shoul use all the animal power of these new GPUs to anchieve CG quality in 480i first... if they cannot get that, why bother to improve resolution after all ????

Pure marketing...

No next gen game, played at 1080p, will look better than a CG from a movie, played from a DVD in a 480i crap TV. So, there´s still room to improve in 480i... why push the resolution up ?

Yes, I want a HD TV to watch HD movies ! But they could anchieve the same image of HD games in a 480i TV (with SVideo at least)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That's a good POV but limited to smaller SDTVs. The moment you get to a large display SDTV just looks all 'blurred out', man. And if you're sitting far enough away that it doesn't look blurry, you don't need an HDTV. We're not going to get CG quality at the moment as that needs insane amounts of AA, but we can get much better clarity for those with HD while also contributing to the AA of SDTV - best of both worlds.

 

[a688]

I wonder ahy they bother with this HD stuff...

Everyone of us has already played a DVD in a 480i TV, right (duh).

Well, NO WAY a game played in 720p will anchieve that picture quality found in a DVD movie (think in a great CG, like Matrix).

IF they cannot even fully utilize the 480i, why the hell would they upgrade the resolution ? Isn´t it pure marketing ??? Why will we play a 1080p game that LOOKS WORSE than a 480i CGI ??? They shoul use all the animal power of these new GPUs to anchieve CG quality in 480i first... if they cannot get that, why bother to improve resolution after all ????

Pure marketing...

No next gen game, played at 1080p, will look better than a CG from a movie, played from a DVD in a 480i crap TV. So, there´s still room to improve in 480i... why push the resolution up ?

Yes, I want a HD TV to watch HD movies ! But they could anchieve the same image of HD games in a 480i TV (with SVideo at least)

Picture quaility != CG quality. I guess since we can't make ALL cg look like people lets just break out the old B&W tvs and silent movies since our lip sinking technology isn't perfect either. If a movie was displayed at 720p and 480i side by side I'll bet that you'd say that the 720p picture was better.

EDIT: Also there are varing degrees of CG quailty. Jurassic Park was made in I believe 1994 and to me, its CG is still pretty amazing. Now look at the CG monster in Resident Evil (the first one). We can approach and exceed the look of the RE CG monster with higher resolution so why not do it.