What the heck is an infraction?
- Thread starter Dooby
- Start date
Pete said it does lead to auto-bans, unless he was joking. Anyways, infractions are used for auto-ban purposes on other sites, and as such they are a really bad idea.
I didn't make any comparisons between infractions and another system, just that infractions are really dumb. I am not indicting this particular site, but infractions in general. The worse cases are the auto-generated punishments, which happen else but apparently not on this site. Still, the temptation, I think, is strongly in favor of such action. If you see a person with numerous infractions, a mod is probably more likely to ban that person than a person with no infractions.
How you keep track of individual violations is not the problem of infractions, but that infractions is a poor way of moderating. Understanding context and situation of each potential rule-violation is vitally important to fair moderation, something infractions adds nothing to. In short, it replaces thought with automation, and that's a bad thing in general.
No, no it doesn't at all...did you just not read everything that was wrote about it?
It's another tool for the mods to use, not a lazy automation. You still have to give thought to your modding action and take the circumstances under considerations, make a note of it even which is more than is usually done.
No, no it doesn't at all...did you just not read everything that was wrote about it?
It's another tool for the mods to use, not a lazy automation. You still have to give thought to your modding action and take the circumstances under considerations, make a note of it even which is more than is usually done.
It's an automation on other sites, even though it's merely a tool here. Even so, it's a tool that can easily be abused since it removes the need for the mod to properly understand the user or situation before doling out penalties.
How exactly do you figure that? The way I am reading it is that the mod has to understand the user/situation before getting to the point of handing out an infraction.
Hell, I personally prefer using sarcasm/mocking as my favorite mod tools...but I'm weird that way.
Why? Or rather how? The system doesn't wake up and hand out an infraction. A mod triggers it, and there is customization available for them to create a one-off reason/catagory if they find it necessary. There is no difference to what is happening than if a mod sent that user a PM without the infraction system. . . . except that with the infraction system the visibility and tracking for the rest of the mod team as to what is happening between that particular mod and that particular user is vastly increased. As such, it provides greater protection for the users that they are less likely to be picked on by an abusive mod as the visibility is increased for the rest of the team to review. Not, of course, that we have any abusive mods here anyway.
Yes, well, that's where my analogy falls apart. Sorry if I misled you. Technically, though, I didn't explicitly mention auto-bans, and I thought my playful first paragraph and "Seriously,..." second para were clues enough to my meaning. I thought I could sidestep a smiley in this case. I abuse them enough, as it is.
Do you really think it's possible for someone to rack up enough infractions as to influence future moderation (I'm talking about more than a handful) without having deserved at least the majority of them? Sure, us mods can get something wrong once in a while, but I'd be surprised if the B3D leadership or (more importantly) membership would be lazy or unaware enough to allow for consistently bad moderation. And, again, getting something wrong is likely to mean nothing more than a warning or infraction, not immediate and irreversible damage to someone.
I don't think it's fair to the moderators here to say they're limited to/by the tools available, or that the tools replace good judgement. They seem like a pretty reasonable and informed group. (Well, except for me. :sly: )
I don't think a review necessitates a reply, but have you seen such a thing on this site? I guess the main question is, why do you think we're moderating unfairly, and, more importantly, why do you think a warning or two (mistaken or justified) is so harsh as to poison our forums?
Once again, you assume the mods here either don't participate regularly in the forums they cover or don't take the time to understand them, and that the infraction system is worse than a slap on the wrist or a time-out.
For argument's sake, let's assume the worst of a mod: me. Let's say I barge in on an unfamiliar, lengthy thread to find a post I don't agree with and slap the offender with not just a warning but a temporary ban. Will this emotionally cripple the poster? Will it scar his faith in humanity? Or will it just mean a few days away from one particular address on the internet? That's assuming no one else checks the potentially faulty ban, and it stands. And he can still complain about it in this forum when the ban expires.
I think you're more concerned with a member accumulating easy-to-apply, minimal-reflection infractions that may negatively prejudice mods' attitudes to that member's future posts. Keep in mind that bans aren't automatic and there's a progression from warning to infraction to more tangible moderation. Members also can complain about any potential railroading in this very forum.
However, I don't think worrying about any potential moderator misconduct is worth spending this much time on. Yes, the infraction system can be abused or misused or even mistakenly, just like the forums (there are FAQs governing posting), the rep system, my trust, etc. I'm not sure that's reason enough to scrap it.
Bah, another long-winded, meandering reply. I should give myself an infraction for being a blowhard. Feel free to report this post!
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/me infracts Pete!
Ah, a little subconscious slip of the fingers there? What you really want is for others to be long-winded blowhards too?
Awaiting my infraction for being a smartass.
You need some, all the good sites have at least one.
My offer to train you in the dark mod arts is always open G, just let me know.
Well, you may have a point. It's hard to play "good cop/bad cop" without someone making a believeable bad cop, right?
"Let me at him! I'll make his rep -2,000 and lock his title as 'Wussy boy pansy pants' and if that doesn't straighten him out I'll make it 'PhysX Fanboy'! "
An "A" for effort, but very low marks for effectiveness. You went way over the top with specific threats that you'll either never do or else would be too much of a prick if you did.
You need to imply all sorts of horribleness without any specifics, it's a fine art. And don't just limit it to their forum experience, be creative.
That's rather arrogant to suggest that the mod team is invulnerable to personal biases or poor judgement. In fact, I suggest the opposite, that it is extremely unlikely for there not to be consistently bad moderation at some point in a board's history. The problem is that mods are in a position of power, something the average user has little or no say over. It's only a matter of time before the mods become more and more disconnected with the average member and abuses will start to occur.
It has the potential to do so.
I never said that. All I said is that infractions are a bad system and will likely lead to problems. This site is not as bad it can get, since it doesn't have auto-ban features, but it's not immune to abuse by any stretch of the imagination.
That has little to do with infractions but poor moderator behavior. The real problem here is that mods don't check on other mods work. They simply assume a ban is justified, and even when it's brought to their attention that the ban may be wrong, they will still support the ban because they either don't want to infringe on the judgment of another mod or they will give the benefit of the doubt to the mod.
Not to mention you delete rude posts quite often, so there's no way to review a invalid infraction in that situation. It's a system that only increases the chances of abuse with little benefit to individual members.
That is correct. Though I think this is more likely to occur than you do.
It is enough to say it doesn't do anything positive. It's arguably just a list of reasons for a mod to dislike or mistrust a particular member after they see it. Not to mention it breeds negative thoughts when you are constantly reminded of past offenses. I'm quite sure that if you were reminded of every argument you had with a friend or relative every time you met them, you would have a much more negative opinion of that person than usual.
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Killer-Kris
Regular
Deusp, I think you need to give it a rest. The fact that they are trying to explain how Beyond3D uses this feature is in itself a very good indication of their intentions.
Of course if they decide to start abusing their moderator power, guess what? It's a private sight, and that's their prerogative. Now only you can make the decision on whether or not the sight offers enough value to you to put up with their rules. All I know is that I've never even had the thought of leaving cross my mind because to me the information in the articles and what can be found in the forums boarders on priceless.
While on the other hand I'm a relatively active member at another web sight's forums where the moderators absolutely abuse their powers. I just saw it happen today where a thread got locked and the sight owner felt the need to post one last jabbing comment even though that comment was against the forum rules. Again I have to make the judgement about whether put up with her biases and freedom to abuse her power (and right) in favor of the information and interaction I get there. Once again I choose to stay, but no where near as happily as I do here.
Of course if they decide to start abusing their moderator power, guess what? It's a private sight, and that's their prerogative. Now only you can make the decision on whether or not the sight offers enough value to you to put up with their rules. All I know is that I've never even had the thought of leaving cross my mind because to me the information in the articles and what can be found in the forums boarders on priceless.
While on the other hand I'm a relatively active member at another web sight's forums where the moderators absolutely abuse their powers. I just saw it happen today where a thread got locked and the sight owner felt the need to post one last jabbing comment even though that comment was against the forum rules. Again I have to make the judgement about whether put up with her biases and freedom to abuse her power (and right) in favor of the information and interaction I get there. Once again I choose to stay, but no where near as happily as I do here.
Seriously. For a forum of this size, b3d's is possibly the best-run I have ever seen. There's no need to be sycophantic here, but there's also no need to be belligerent. I'm sorry you got auto-banned some other place, but frankly, after a few repeated complaints, you reach the point of deal with it or get out -- or at least bring some new arguments to the table.