What do you think PS3/Xbox2 games will look like?

[London Geezer]

the thing is, we already have hardware that can output *at-times-almost-photorealistic-images*. if u look at GT3, it does look almost photorealistic at times (of course if u get over the obvious IQ problems) especially in the replays... and that is an old 1st gen game on PS2.....

i just dont think it would really take a whole 1000x more powerful that that to make *a-bit-more-that-at-times-photorealistic-images*.... but of course what would i know...

 

[Phil]

exactly my thoughts.... I haven't seen a game that beats GT3's wet tracks yet.. now imagine if you added real time weather effects like on the MGS2 shipdeck at the beginning... wow....

 

[London Geezer]

exactly my thoughts.... I haven't seen a game that beats GT3's wet tracks yet.. now imagine if you added real time weather effects like on the MGS2 shipdeck at the beginning... wow....

yeah... i mean it obviously looks like a videogame, its still not up there... but what the hell not even final fantasy TSW was 100% photorealistic. i mean people could still see that *they're not real*..... but u know, take a realistic game like GT3 and put 1000x after it and i really fail to see how that could not be photorealistic... im not talking about ps3 or anything, i'm saying, the day we do have something thats 1000x better than that...... its just amazing thinking about it

 

[speng]

I think as the gpu gets more powerful companies will shift pace.

If you notice currently, to develop a game you can buy almost any part and only need to code the gameplay aspects. The graphics engine, AI, animation, network systems and physics engine can all be purchased.

There are art studios being formed that you can use on a pay per art basis or a similar contract.

Small Studios can still exist, it just needs to shift with the market.

As the gpu gets more powerful companies will devote more resources or change their structure to get the most out of it. With new Shading Languages making effects easier to create and reuse, I think we'll see a great leap in graphics when the next-gen consoles come about. Provided that there is a good high-level api and tools to push development.

The picture linked above may be a bit too detailed, but I don't think it's too far out depending on the game.

Speng.

 

[handbrake2]

I doubt that we would see anything that we might mistake for real.
On one hand we might get graphics that look like more sohisticated versions of what we currently have, image quality wise:

http://www.highend3d.com/artists/artist.3d?au=dudesir&iid=168

One the other hand the graphics might look revolutionary, but not quite real looking:

http://www.highend3d.com/artists/artist.3d?au=ZartanW&iid=31

I figure that both of these images should be do-able with DX9 class hardware, can they be done at interactive frame rates at this IQ and with other stuff going on?

 

[megadrive0088]

I think games will look very similar to the CG work found in games like FFX and KH.

I agree. games on PS3 and XBox2 are going to look like what you see in today's prerendered game cut scenes.

they are NOT by, any means, going to look anywhere near as good as
Final Fantasy the Movie. that will take AT LEAST another generation
(re: PS4, XBox3) if not longer.


Games have yet to reach even Toy Story 1 quality and may not even reach that with PS3 and XBox2, let alone FF Movie.

 

[Jabjabs]

Especially the lighting and shadow effects, its a critical part to make a scene look as credible and immersive as you want, no matter how many polygons your characters have, if a scene has bad lighting, its useless.

That's the approch Bungie is taking with Halo2, don't improve polygon count but what you do with them IE Lighting and shadows.

exactly my thoughts.... I haven't seen a game that beats GT3's wet tracks yet.. now imagine if you added real time weather effects like on the MGS2 shipdeck at the beginning... wow....

Well GT3 wouldn't exactlly push an GC or Xbox GPU at the moment, the great thing about GT3 is it uses lots of visual tricks to make it look great without much rendering over head.

What I mean is take a look at Project gotham it does at least double the polygon counts and has 7 realtime reflections running at once (6 for cars, 1 for the road, it's active in both rain and not rain tracks). Now PS2 would have no hope of replicating that kind of rendering but it still doesn't make PGR look better than gT3 now does it.

It's more a case of not how powerful the GPU is but what you do with it. The GPU may be good but if it's not used to good the resaults may not be all that good. IE PGR vs GT3.

 

[Vince]

I figure that both of these images should be do-able with DX9 class hardware, can they be done at interactive frame rates at this IQ and with other stuff going on?

Don't you think we'll be a bit beyond DX9-class hardware? I'm expencting no less than Nv4x (DX10) level in XBox Next at the least - which should usher in an interesting shift in hardware architectrures. PS3 is a wildcard, but it looks highly programmable if that patent is anything to go by.

they are NOT by, any means, going to look anywhere near as good as Final Fantasy the Movie. that will take AT LEAST another generation (re: PS4, XBox3) if not longer.

We'll, I don't wanta start groundless rumors, but I'd hope that you'd be wrong. Granted, you can't do FF:TSW at the same sampling rate, etc as in the movie - but look at nVidia's FF:TSW demo for the NV20, that was pretty damn good.

DoomIII is running on Nv15 level hardware for example. I'd think developers could do some amazing things with a closed box running DX10 or higher - especially in regards to lighting.

 

[Jabjabs]

Hey Vince I've been looking for the FF:TSW Nv20 screenshots/info for ages, do you know of any links?

I'm expencting no less than Nv4x (DX10) level in XBox Next at the least

Maybe even DX11?

You know a while back MS said that the ultimate goal for the xbox franchise was to have the system so efficient that it would run on only one chip! (sort of like the Cell only with audio/GPU on chip as well) While this probably won't be until xbox 4/5 or 6 that is the future for it. A bit off topic but I just got reminded of that.

 

[handbrake2]

I fixed the links in my earlier reply. Take a look at both of those pics. I don't see why they can't be done on DX9 level hardware. Those pics look so good due to their image quality. As far as I can see, photorealism is available today on DX9 hardware, given enough rendering time. The only real issue is performance. Even if the spaceship(?) in the 2nd image could be rendered at interactive frame rates today, how about a battle with 200 of them flying around simultaneously?

The only significant lighting step up from here is global illumination I suppose, and I doubt that NV4x/5x or R4xx/5xx will be able to handle that at interactive frame rates anyway.

Handbrake2.

 

[Vince]

Hey Vince I've been looking for the FF:TSW Nv20 screenshots/info for ages, do you know of any links?

Yes Sir,

http://www.nvidia.co.uk/view.asp?IO=final_fantasy

On second look, it's impressive - but not as it once looked. Especially when you consider a few factors like: (a) DoomIII, to a lesser extent Halo2 and SH3 running on 2000-era hardware. (b) That XBox2 and PS3 will be a bit beyond this.

 

[V3]

If anyone can find some GScube FFTSW screens, that would probably be a good estimate.

But the GeforceFX and R9700 demo, is also pretty good indication.

 

[Blade]

The GF-FX demo looks fantastic. Heck, so did the GF3's demos.. and the GF2's..

I'd think developers could do some amazing things with a closed box running DX10 or higher

Of course. That's why you've gotta love consoles.

 

[megadrive0088]

I, like many, dont think PS3 will have graphics features in hardware beyond DX9 PS/VS 2.0/3.0, if that.

Xbox2 however, should have PS/VS 5.0! or better

 

[Cyborg]

Imagine Grand Thef Auto with these graphics? !!!

Would it truely be hard to pull that off on next gen hardware? It has a ray tracing engine, and i believe PS3 could handle that at 60fps, at least, thats what the speculations around here led to and fafalada seemed to agree.. Building textures are repetitive, cars aswell, you could put a limited diversity of pedestrians. It basicly end up with good lighting to get that look..

Or how about this?

mmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Vince]

I, like many, dont think PS3 will have graphics features in hardware beyond DX9 PS/VS 2.0/3.0, if that.

Xbox2 however, should have PS/VS 5.0! or better

How the hell did you come to this conclusion as it would seem to contradict everything we've seen concerning PS3. Infact, the EE's VU1 powered "VS" already, due to their general purpose nature, support features thats are on a DX10+ level.

So, I question how this can be - other than you just playing the nomenclature game.


Also, the whole cellular computing architecture was re-invented at IBM for the purpose of raytracing IIRC. I wonder how effective it would be - although theose last shots are a bit beyond IMHO.

 

[Cyborg]

Especially if xbox 2 will be released before PS3, microsoft keeps saying that they'll have the better hardware, but how is that possible to be certain of? A console being released before another just has more chances to have outdated technology than the competition.

 

[V3]

I think R9700 and GeforceFX should be able to do the above screens in cutscenes. It won't be raytraced or of the same quality but it should look pretty close.

 

[PC-Engine]

I think the processing capablilites will be there to do those screens. they don't look that impressive in terms of complexity. The question is how much memory will the consoles have?

 

[Cyborg]

I think the processing capablilites will be there to do those screens. they don't look that impressive in terms of complexity

I would crap my pants if i would play a game with these kind of details, really, i would..

You're right, its not insanely complex in models or textures, but its the way everything "fits" perfectly in the scene, probably due to the lighting.