Vita 2 / PS4 Go?

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http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/02/17/sony-files-patent-for-what-looks-like-a-switch-esque-handheld
http://blog.esuteru.com/archives/20009529.html
EDIT: Here's the actual japanese patent site -> http://ipforce.jp/patent-jp-A-2017-37371
Despite IGN's claims, this has nothing to do with Switch's detachable controllers. It seems they're somehow "disconnected" from the main tablet because of the rumbling functionality, which is also described in the patent. Apparently, it's those "grip covers (GPR and GPL) that vribate and not some motors inside the grips.



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We are indeed getting to the point where AMD is capable of making a SoC with the original PS4's performance at a tablet form factor.
Raven Ridge is probably not getting there, but its 10/7nm successor should be able to reach that target. Bandwidth could be a problem, though I imagine a single stack of low-cost HBM could reach 8GB and easily match the 176GB/s bandwidth.

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I don't think a Vita 2 (i.e. another non-compliant platform) is coming from Sony since the Vita ended up in a sales failure. But a portable console that shares the same library with the PS4 would be genius IMO.
They would just need to find a way to let disc owners download their titles to the mobile console, otherwise they'll suffer boycott from retailers like they did with the PSP Go..
 
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It's pretty standard practice to file technology and design patents on any substantial branch of research that may bear fruit, even if you have no intention of actively pursuing it. When I worked in the aerospace and defence sector everything we 'discovered', intentionally or otherwise, we had legal file patents for. You just never know what will be significant in future and where a prior patent would be leverage or potential licensing.

Design patents are awful, though. You can just have designers produce huge numbers of varying designs so you have cause of legal action against anybody who produces something similar in future.
 
DSoup said:
It's pretty standard practice to file technology and design patents on any substantial branch of research that may bear fruit, even if you have no intention of actively pursuing it. When I worked in the aerospace and defence sector everything we 'discovered', intentionally or otherwise, we had legal file patents for. You just never know what will be significant in future and where a prior patent would be leverage or potential licensing.

Design patents are awful, though. You can just have designers produce huge numbers of varying designs so you have cause of legal action against anybody who produces something similar in future.
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That's true, but if Sony had absolute zero intent on making this they wouldn't have bothered.
I bet when you worked in aerospace and defence your company wouldn't didn't file patents for women purses, for example.

So even if there's a very low chance of happening, they did take precautions about eventually wanting to develop a product like this.
They could simply be looking at how the Switch behaves in the market. If it's dwarfed by low interest e.g. because of underperforming hardware leading to 3rd-party absence, they can find an opening to launch a console with a huge library on day one.
 
ToTTenTranz said:
That's true, but if Sony had absolute zero intent on making this they wouldn't have bothered.
I bet when you worked in aerospace and defence your company wouldn't didn't file patents for women purses, for example.
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they wouldn't have been developing purses. But every idea they had in the course of their work, they'd patent. If someone at Sony said, "maybe a tablet with controllers either side is a good idea?" they'd want to patent it just in case they decide to pursue it later. You can't wait on an idea or else someone else with patent it. If the controllers are removable, they may try to troll Nintendo - the patent seems to predate Switch.
 
7nm and HBM2 doesn't get you a portable PS4 does it? Wouldn't you be looking at > 20w still? That's too much for a small tablet?

For software compatibility, they wouldn't be able to leverage newer more power efficient architecture either?
 
They only need to release a relatively low power portable which can have all of its games played on the PS4 too. If they also gave it the social features and ease of use that the PS4 has, as well as 4 shoulder buttons, I'm sure it would sell admirably.
 
I still think we will it a point very soon that the one/ps4 can changed over to puma+ and vega and come in at tablet sized power. For MS and Sony it makes a lot of sense esp if either company wants to give their mid gen upgrades room to grow
 
In theory, would an x86 portable be feasible at the same size as the PSVita, with acceptable battery life?

I ask because, although the GPD win (and a couple of others in that thread) make it seem so, it can't be a coincidence that ARM dominates the portable space.

The Raven Ridge slides talk of a TDP ranging from something like 35W, which makes it a non-starter in whatever form it's being marketed. So, could a semi-custom Raven Ridge APU come in at a low enough TDP for a PSP2/PSP3/PSVita2?

If so, would they be able to go with a 4 core, 8 thread variant, and just run it at a lower frequency than the PS4?

If the answers to the above are "yes, yes, and yes," or "sort of, sort of, sort of," what kind of technical hurdle would Sony and developers face in ensuring that a game compiled for the PSP2/PSP3/PSVita2 would run on the PS4 too?
 
I think it was a shame that Sony didn't introduce a Vita2 within a year of the PS4 release. Granted, it would have likely been the current-day Nintendo Switch except with solid features, polished user experiences, games people enjoy and available around 2 years ago.
 
Tkumpathenurpahl said:
In theory, would an x86 portable be feasible at the same size as the PSVita, with acceptable battery life?

I ask because, although the GPD win (and a couple of others in that thread) make it seem so, it can't be a coincidence that ARM dominates the portable space.

The Raven Ridge slides talk of a TDP ranging from something like 35W, which makes it a non-starter in whatever form it's being marketed. So, could a semi-custom Raven Ridge APU come in at a low enough TDP for a PSP2/PSP3/PSVita2?

If so, would they be able to go with a 4 core, 8 thread variant, and just run it at a lower frequency than the PS4?

If the answers to the above are "yes, yes, and yes," or "sort of, sort of, sort of," what kind of technical hurdle would Sony and developers face in ensuring that a game compiled for the PSP2/PSP3/PSVita2 would run on the PS4 too?
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Yes for the first one. In the tablet space Atom based CPUs combined with an OS optimized for mobile useage were competitive WRT battery life with the majority of Andoid tablets sold.

When it comes to performance that's where things get tricky. It wasn't competitive with the performance of the top end SOCs. But those SOCs don't go into the majority of tablets that get sold. However, when considering all SOCs being sold in Android tablets it was roughly average. Better than most budget SOCs, but not nearly as powerful as high end SOCs.

Going by just historical x86 SOCs (APUs) that were sold into the market, no, nothing would come in at the weight of the Vita with similar battery life, similar weight, and similar performance.

Right now there's too little information available for the upcoming Raven Ridge APU. While there is a little data to be gathered from the release of Ryzen, there is absolutely no data available for the GPU core that will be used. And even with the data we have for Ryzen, we have no way of projecting what power usage characteristics will be for Raven Ridge.

We also don't know the exact targets for Raven Ridge. All we have is a ballpark figure for mobile Raven Ridge, which is I believe 4-35 watts. But that doesn't really tell us much, especially when it comes to very low wattage.

Regards,
SB
 
ToTTenTranz said:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/02/17/sony-files-patent-for-what-looks-like-a-switch-esque-handheld
http://blog.esuteru.com/archives/20009529.html
EDIT: Here's the actual japanese patent site -> http://ipforce.jp/patent-jp-A-2017-37371
Despite IGN's claims, this has nothing to do with Switch's detachable controllers. It seems they're somehow "disconnected" from the main tablet because of the rumbling functionality, which is also described in the patent. Apparently, it's those "grip covers (GPR and GPL) that vribate and not some motors inside the grips.



7ionH5O.gif




We are indeed getting to the point where AMD is capable of making a SoC with the original PS4's performance at a tablet form factor.
Raven Ridge is probably not getting there, but its 10/7nm successor should be able to reach that target. Bandwidth could be a problem, though I imagine a single stack of low-cost HBM could reach 8GB and easily match the 176GB/s bandwidth.

p8nL5Wg.png



I don't think a Vita 2 (i.e. another non-compliant platform) is coming from Sony since the Vita ended up in a sales failure. But a portable console that shares the same library with the PS4 would be genius IMO.
They would just need to find a way to let disc owners download their titles to the mobile console, otherwise they'll suffer boycott from retailers like they did with the PSP Go..
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this is the closest I've seen to date to my dreamt portable console from any of the current companies in the console business. Hopefully someday we will see a console along the lines of the Linx Vision tablet.

If it could offer full PS4 BC then it could be very successful.
 
What sony has to do is release a portable that can move all ps4 games at 720p, and just share catalogue between them, dont forcing you to buy the same game 2 times if you want to play it on ps4 and ps4portable.
 
Adrian said:
What sony has to do is release a portable that can move all ps4 games at 720p, and just share catalogue between them, dont forcing you to buy the same game 2 times if you want to play it on ps4 and ps4portable.
Click to expand...

But how will all the PS4 owners be able to load their physical BluRay games on the portable? They tend to not purchase via digital.
 
EDIT: I accidentally made this post in the wrong thread.. meant to make it here:

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...with-tablet-esque-console.59921/#post-1971159

Could a mod please move it? Thanks.



I have heard from a developer source that Nintendo's DS cartridge costs per unit were several times in excess of what a comparable NAND flash cost at the time.

We know almost certainly that Nintendo has continued using Macronix parts for Switch cartridges. Up to midway through the DS era this was mask ROM parts, which had an expensive one time cost of generating the masks. Since then Macronix has transitioned to a technology they call XtraROM. While I believe these are one-time programmable electrically, a programming method does not appear to be exposed by the pinout or described in the datasheet. So it probably needs to be programmed by Macronix before packaging, and I'm sure there's a charge here - although there'd be a charge with having to mass program flash cartridges too.

I can see why Nintendo wouldn't want to use plain flash on the cartridges, since XtraROM is supposed to be more reliable/durable and may contain more embedded DRM hardware. But this could come with a price. Still, even following DRAMeXchange plain old NAND flash is looking to be around $4 for 8GB right now and who knows how large these marked up games are. Maybe over time the markup will go down, assume game size doesn't increase at the same rate.
 
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The largest known game is an RPG (DragonQuest Hero ?) which is 32 Gig. I only know this because it was said the default system wouldnt be able to play the downloadable version of it; the user would need to add storage to the unit.
 
I still don't the see how you can fit a PS4 equivelent chip into tablet even with 7nm. Maybe a laptop thick 10" one?

A none PS4 compatible system feels like it would be another failure, if if porting isn't too onerous
 
cheapchips said:
I still don't the see how you can fit a PS4 equivelent chip into tablet even with 7nm. Maybe a laptop thick 10" one?
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IIRC the PS4 Slim's 16FF SoC is ~160mm^2.
At 7nm we're looking at 80-90mm^2.

What is it about a 90mm^2 SoC with tiny 1.6GHz CPU cores and 800MHz GPU into a tablet that you don't see?
At that time, LPDDR5 is most probably surpassing the original PS4's 5500MT/s GDDR5 RAM (current LPDDR4 already does 4266MT/s).
 
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