They are so "professionals" in my work, I hate them!

[Nesh]

Here is another fun story.

I am a brand manager at a company where we collaborate with various fashion brands. Now every summer we prepare for this Back to School event were we also offer gifts and vouchers to customers who buy schoolwear.
Well, I happen to be involved in the Back to School event, and I proposed that we include a draw competition like last year. Last year we had iPads. Our schoolwear customers can simply complete their details, throw them in a box, and at the end of the event, 5 winners would win an iPad or whatever we choose this year.

So.....at a meeting about the event one suggested consoles,....well, instead of asking ME who is responsible for the event along with my supervisor, they decide to listen to one lady! One lady whose job is to create items and prices in our system, who has zero knowledge about the console market, who does not know the demographics, whose kids own an original XBOX and she has no idea the 360 exists. She says "dont go with XBOX because its old. Playstation 3 is new". Yes...she was talking about XBOX1 vs Playstation 3.
And they agreed with her. And I was like "?????"

So I say "they are both of the same generation. A new XBOX exists. They are both new!. Kids are interested in both", and I wanted to point that, because I had the Kinect Bundle in my mind wanted to check all options in case we went for a console. And of course apparently she was completely ignorant about the subject.
What do I get from my supervisor?
"You only know because you know about technology"
"Its not about technology. I know the console market. I check the market and the demographics"
"Parents dont know about XBOX, listen to her" he says
I tried to explain she was talking about XBOX1, she didnt know that there is a new XBOX in the market, he told me to leave it for after the meeting.

Oh God I was so pissed off that he actually took the advice of some lady who knows the existence only of the original XBOX because thats what her boys own, she has generally limited knowledge about anything and her job isnt even related to setting strategies, reading the market etc etc. She just creates prices and items in the system!!

Apparently my supervisor knows jackshit about consoles, their demographics and the market either.

I was so pissed!! I still am. Its now 4:35 am in the morning here and I cant sleep.

So....I go back to him later after the meeting and I challenged him....and what do you think he does? He asks again the same lady, some other lady who is approaching her 40s who is not even married, and another lady who has kids but hasnt asked her kids what they know and want. The second obviously had no idea she said, the third said "Playstation" because thats the only thing she knew. The second added "well my Kids had an XBOX (Referring to XBOX1) and want to pick a Playstation now. So is the other ladys kids in my office. So Playstation is more popular"

Well...helloooo? You are a small sample? You didnt even know 360 existed?
Kids go with their parents when they will buy a console?The kid will tell the parent what he wants?

And then my supervisor comes back to me and says "See? Parents dont buy XBOX"

I say "when a kid will see the bundle it will be the kid who will pick his parent from his sleeve and say Dad I want this. I challenge you to go to a store at the Mall near us and check for yourself what people buy"

I tell him that the market share is about 50/50, parents buy 360's for their kids, I was considering the Kinect bundle which is a massive success with kids. It was a success with kids and casuals, not with tech freaks! And because the ladies in the office dont know about Kinect that doesnt necessarily reveal anything.
I get the same response "you only now about it (he had no idea what the hell Kinect is) because you are interested in technology, Nobody knows about XBOX in this office"

Oh God!! Then I got a swarm of "expert" opinions from the same non-expert people he asked. Yes the ladies.

I asked do you know Wii? They all proudly replied Yes because they consider theirselves fucking experts....so I say...which one do you think its the most popular with kids? Wii or Playstation? Well they couldnt answer. And I was going to ask them how did they get to know Wii? Wasnt it from their kids? But they didnt let me finish where I was getting at, they bombarded me with their anecdotal evidence and assumptions about what I was going to say

"You dont get what I am saying.I am talking about the market not the technology. People in here dont know. Its an anecdotal sample"
And i get again the response "its because you are the only one who cares about technology".
Apparently I was talking to a wall.

Then they call me a Brand manager.

edit: Is this more suitable for the general discussion forum after all?

 

[Jedi2016]

I think I'm spoiled working in a group full of geeks and gamers.

 

[orangpelupa]

wow nesh, i totally can understand your frustation.
i've been on similar condition and its so hard to explain things to those type of people did not know a thing but they think they know.

 

[Platon]

It was really entertaining/frustrating to read your story/venting of the whole event and I can only say is I hate ignorance and even worse when you ignore you are ignorant, it is a bliss isn't it . They do understand pie charts though, maybe just send them over one of those from the NPD threads or isn't it gamasutra that usually has some analysis of the sales every month almost. Keep it cool...

 

[mrcorbo]

It was really entertaining/frustrating to read your story/venting of the whole event and I can only say is I hate ignorance and even worse when you ignore you are ignorant, it is a bliss isn't it . They do understand pie charts though, maybe just send them over one of those from the NPD threads or isn't it gamasutra that usually has some analysis of the sales every month almost. Keep it cool...

That's actually a very good idea. There's indisputable proof that you can cite that you are right and they are wrong. Of course, what you are encountering here is a classic case of confirmation bias, so it's very possible they will still manufacture a reason to dismiss your proof since it doesn't match what they "know" is correct.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Ah, these kind of people. Don't bother, no matter what you try they wont listen. Even if you can present them with facts their lack of intelligence will just take over and go into ''no matter what you say I am right'' mode.

Best not to get yourself worked up, just let them have things their way and when things go sideways and your boss comes to you, just smile and say: ''Didn't I told you so?''

Anyway your boss doesnt seem like the smartess person on the planet either. Your gonna listen to some lady on there for inputting data and just toss your brand manager aside calling him a geek while he is the person who gets paid to do these sort of things? Yeah...

This lady who is running the office where I work is the same. I wonder how people like this get these kind of positions. We are working on a human powered aircraft and during a meeting she seriously asked where the engine would be...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

This lady who is running the office where I work is the same. I wonder how people like this get these kind of positions.

Human hierarchies are built on human behaviour, which isn't based on rational thought or objective reasoning. That's why intelligent, methodical people who'd be better equipped to research and make decisions often don't get the positions, because their intelligent behaviour doesn't map well to the typical human-relation-building forces. And that's why pushy, know-nothing morons can get positions of control, because their behaviour works on an emotional level to see them placed there either because they are seen as strong (stubbornly having an opinion seems often more respected than being open-minded which is a flavour of indecision), or because people want to follow them to avoid their negative attitudes.

 

[liolio]

Human hierarchies are built on human behaviour, which isn't based on rational thought or objective reasoning. That's why intelligent, methodical people who'd be better equipped to research and make decisions often don't get the positions, because their intelligent behaviour doesn't map well to the typical human-relation-building forces. And that's why pushy, know-nothing morons can get positions of control, because their behaviour works on an emotional level to see them placed there either because they are seen as strong (stubbornly having an opinion seems often more respected than being open-minded which is a flavour of indecision), or because people want to follow them to avoid their negative attitudes.

+1 add the peter syndrome/principle and you are there.

Funnily while I was doing IT support in the best French business school, I happen to meet a teacher willing to help my workmate and I. It gave us hints wrt to how to get a job and how the most single important aspect of it is creating a network of people.
He went a bit further and explained us that people receiving you at an interview usually consider mostly 3 points (from is experience as a successful business man in his early days and now as teacher with an impressive of contact with students now in desirable positions, CEO etc.):
1) is he/she a match for the job? => he told us that usually if you got the interview it's yes (they can tell by your resume mostly)
2) Would I enjoy to work with him/her? Spending most of your awake life with somebody you don't appreciate is unpleasant...
3) Is he/she going to (try to) steal my job...

Scary ain't it> lol

One can easily understand how we got where we are overall and how easily Peter principle get us next to a cliff...

/ end of the rant.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Not worth being angry over. I hardly thing anyone's going to be incensed if they win a free PS3 in a drawing. I mean, while yes, they're dumb, it's not like anyone suggested, "Why not order some Playstations on Ebay and have a drawing for those? They're really cheap now!" and you realize she's talking about the PS1.

 

[kyetech]

Im assuming you are american?

Everybody hates VGchartz.com

But show them this

http://www.vgchartz.com/yearly/2011/USA/

its got life time totals too. Its good enough to show that this stoooopid lady is talking shit!!!

I have had things like this in the past. Annoying as hell.

Perhaps you should also link this thread to your guy who shot you down by asking another stoopid lady and see what he thinks about what poeple think here ;-)

 

[Acert93]

Or if trendy is what you are looking for, although it has fizzled some, is to forward the link to Kinect PR being the fastest selling electronic device blah blah blah and an NPD 2011 recap. Then you can happy dance on their desks!

Or just ignore it as it isn't core to the business (i.e. knowing NPD trends isn't a qualification for the job) and a PS3 is a fine prize.

 

[Nesh]

Well I am from Europe actually. It doesnt matter anymore. They went with iPads but damn I get so pissed off when they open their mouths about shit they dont know, uneducated sometimes with no real opinion. The next day they started discussing about the subject again regardless of the final decision and it was funny seeing a 40+ year old talking about "software" and PS3 being better because she heard it can play PS2 games which gave me an opportunity to jump in and show them who is the boss. Anyways the annoying part is that they underestimate me so much when it comes to general knowledge. Imagine how edit: Sheldon from big bang theory would have felt if he was listening to a bunch of average people talking about String Theory who wouldnt listen to him because he didnt look cool. Not that I am not cool! I am fucking awesome!! Perhaps there is a halo effect going on there that works against me. They dont listen! I feel I am rarely heard.

 

[Gerry]

Shawn?

 

[RedVi]

Getting worked up about it won't win you any points. It's hard at times, but you have to remain calm, present the actual facts where you can, and be prepared to let it slide if no one seems willing to listen to you. Make your position clear in rational and straightforward manner, don't go on about it for days, just move on when you have to. If the decision goes badly, you will come out on top. As much as the idea to ask one lady with kids what console she thinks is most popular is a stupid idea to base an entire campaign on, it's a pretty human thing to do. If you get all angry about it and start throwing fact after fact in their face when they have moved on from the issue you're going to look pretty anti-social to them which won't help your place in your job.

In this case, yes it's annoying, but the end outcome if they did decide on PS3 over 360's wouldn't really change. It's not like the current purchase rate is a 20/80 split or anything.

 

[Platon]

Shawn?

Sheldon I would think...

 

[AlphaWolf]

You should probably just get a t-shirt made with a bar graph of market share and wear it every casual friday.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Getting worked up about it won't win you any points. It's hard at times, but you have to remain calm, present the actual facts where you can, and be prepared to let it slide if no one seems willing to listen to you.

Like a discussion forum.

 

[Nesh]

Sheldon I would think...

Oops. Sheldon I meant

You should probably just get a t-shirt made with a bar graph of market share and wear it every casual friday.

Getting worked up about it won't win you any points. It's hard at times, but you have to remain calm, present the actual facts where you can, and be prepared to let it slide if no one seems willing to listen to you. Make your position clear in rational and straightforward manner, don't go on about it for days, just move on when you have to. If the decision goes badly, you will come out on top. As much as the idea to ask one lady with kids what console she thinks is most popular is a stupid idea to base an entire campaign on, it's a pretty human thing to do. If you get all angry about it and start throwing fact after fact in their face when they have moved on from the issue you're going to look pretty anti-social to them which won't help your place in your job.

In this case, yes it's annoying, but the end outcome if they did decide on PS3 over 360's wouldn't really change. It's not like the current purchase rate is a 20/80 split or anything.

A pretty human thing to do it may be, but it is an unprofessional approach. And I need a good evaluation of all available options. One of the subjects brought up was cost of the promotion too. So it wasnt only about purchase rate. There are bundles and offers I wanted them to see. They come at different prices. And our options to be evaluated shouldnt be limited as a result of lack of knowledge and wrong approach. Right?.

I always try to look calm at work even though sometimes I feel angry.
This is why I posted it here so I could get it all out since thats not a luxury you have at work.
I dont pursue to get the last word. I throw my attempts, although I may be angry and try to hide it.