The real ''Next-Gen'' games...?

[N3xtG3nGam3r]

We all know that theoretically ''next-gen'' has started, but the games that we are seeing...would you consider them to be ''next-gen''?

Graphically, i would say the games are next generation, but gameplay wise, they lack. And this is true with the Wii, the 360 and the PS3.

This article is old, and im not sure if its been discussed on here, but i know this will spark interesting conversation, so ill suggest you read this interview with a developer from Lucasarts, which is working on a ''next-gen'' star wars game.

The physics technology they claim they can render in real-time sounds mindblowing. This type of stuff will change gameplay and push us into near real life simulation to an extent. Not saying star wars is realistic, but you know what i mean.

crucial read: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/721/721019p1.html

Discuss.

 

[N3xtG3nGam3r]

Digital Molecular Matter is the physics engine i guess they are using, and they claim they can make wood splinter, glass shatter, and metal bend and dent, all realistically, in real time.

Another game i can think of that uses this similar type of technology, is Brothers in Arms: Hells Highway. If you watch the trailer for it, you can see bullet holes actually being shot in cloth materials, you can see a wooden shed demolished by a mounted machine gun, and a tank roll over and smash a jeep, all in real time. Crysis uses some of these properties, as far as i know, but im not sure to what extent.

They make it sound like in the DMM engine, that you basically have a real-time environment that reacts to anything, and everything you do. Meaning you could destroy everything in a level, including the level. I have read that BIA:HH reacts the same way, to bullets, grenades and explosions.

 

[N3xtG3nGam3r]

Okay guys, i know this is kindof ''old'' but its not anything i have seen/heard discussed on here...?

 

[Naboomagnoli]

I would have thought a lot of this was discussed in the "which developers are most innovative" (or something like that) thread.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37039

Assassin's Creed, BioShock, Mass Effect, Heavenly Sword, Lair, "Big", Motorstorm and MGS4 are the games that spring to mind immediately. If I was to make a list of truly next-gen games, I'd probably mention them. But I'd never do that..

 

[MDX]

We all know that theoretically ''next-gen'' has started, but the games that we are seeing...would you consider them to be ''next-gen''?

Graphically, i would say the games are next generation, but gameplay wise, they lack. And this is true with the Wii, the 360 and the PS3.

This article is old, and im not sure if its been discussed on here, but i know this will spark interesting conversation, so ill suggest you read this interview with a developer from Lucasarts, which is working on a ''next-gen'' star wars game.

The physics technology they claim they can render in real-time sounds mindblowing. This type of stuff will change gameplay and push us into near real life simulation to an extent. Not saying star wars is realistic, but you know what i mean.

crucial read: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/721/721019p1.html

Discuss.

Im sorry, but you got to take Wii off that list.

Wii Sports

Anything that can bring the feel of outside inside your home is simply next gen.
Three years ago, no, two years ago, when I bought my Xbox I never thought I would ever play
a game where I could use every ounce of physical being to play. Before Wii and Wiisports everything has been hand excersises. This time, you get up and play.

When playing Zelda, which in my opinion kicks the guts out of Gears of War (rant on: actually, I dont even know how it could win GOTY at all, this piece of BORING, overhyped eye-candy recycled space marine shooter killing bugs with uninteresting levels, stupid AI, physics, etc. And if your going to say its fun playing multiplayer- well yes, anything you play with friends can be fun. I still get a kick from playing paper football. Black is a better game -rant off) I can lean back in my chair comfy, and play. No need to lean over hunched with both my hands afixed onto some weird controller. I need to point, I point, I need to swing my sword, I swing.

In other words, the whole new way we can play games thanks to the Wii is to me next gen. Your skill in winning a game is more than just hand-eye coordination, it can now include arm, leg, torso, etc

 

[Naboomagnoli]

Out of interest, to what extent does the Wiimote utilize your leg?? I personally see the Wiimote itself as "next-gen", but I think the point of the OP was that some of the games released on Wii so far use the Wiimote decidely less well than others. A poor game that uses the Wiimote is not instantaneously elevated to "next-gen" status; it ought to marry the Wiimote controls to innovative gameplay (or massively improve existing gameplay with the controls) to be what is in this case considered "next-gen".

 

[avaya]

Im sorry, but you got to take Wii off that list.

Wii Sports

Anything that can bring the feel of outside inside your home is simply next gen.
Three years ago, no, two years ago, when I bought my Xbox I never thought I would ever play
a game where I could use every ounce of physical being to play. Before Wii and Wiisports everything has been hand excersises. This time, you get up and play.

Did DDR, EyeToy and many more exist in a vacuum?

 

[NovemberMike]

What I think is cool is some of the things people are doing with procedural generation. The people that are doing Spore, for example, have all of the creature stuff done in procedural synthesis. When creatures are created, the entire creatures data is stored in a small file that only has the data for a more primitive example that is then extrapolated into the complete creature. They also use P.G. to figure out how things move, so you can create an animal that is whatever you want (5 legs and a prehensile tail, all arranged by you) and the computer figures out how it gets around.

This is what I want to see in the next gen.

 

[Natoma]

Did DDR, EyeToy and many more exist in a vacuum?

Those games/addons didn't define an entire console. Big difference.

 

[Naboomagnoli]

Yes, but on the other hand you can't say all Wii games are next-gen just because of the controller - especially since some (not me) could argue that because the hardware itself only allows the games to look slightly better than current-gen, the games will never be next-gen on all fronts (and thus never "truly" next-gen).

 

[Nesh]

The only game I playied so far and felt next gen was one that didnt have next gen graphics, and wasnt on a next gen console or a high end PC.

That game was Shadow of Colossus :smile:

 

[Naboomagnoli]

Absolutely. It was the atmosphere and the sheer scale of taking down each colossus that felt so unique in a game. So many games look to become movie-like, or photorealistic, adding as many details as possible. Not enough games use less detail to evoke more imagination in the player. IMO, SotC (and Ico) tells you so little in terms of background story and of the world around you that you get more immersed in the world - there's so much more mysticism and wonder when you have the opportunity to try and fill the blanks in yourself. The colossi are incredible too (a work of art in their own rights) - so intimidating in stature, so alive with character, and the sense of scale is perfectly achieved with their slow movement.

Agro is the star of the show as well - the effort they put into recreating a horse multiplies the immersion of the experience tenfold. Oblivion's horses felt so stiff and uninteresting in comparison. The same technique of using attachment to an NPC was used in Ico, and both games really shone as a result.

To be honest the poor framerate of the game was less of an issue than you'd expect from games - playing SotC at 60fps would be wholly inappropriate if you ask me. I know the lack of smaller enemies was a problem for some, but I genuinely don't see how they could have been implemented without the whole experience losing a lot of the magic that made the game so special in the first place.

 

[Nesh]

Perfectly said

 

[MDX]

Yes, but on the other hand you can't say all Wii games are next-gen just because of the controller - especially since some (not me) could argue that because the hardware itself only allows the games to look slightly better than current-gen, the games will never be next-gen on all fronts (and thus never "truly" next-gen).

Ok, so with that logic, most, if not all, 360 games are basically not next gen on all fronts as well. Because for one they lack an immersive control system. The got the HD but not the 3D(controls)
And Wii got the 3D but not the HD.
Which are you going to choose?

But seriously, what are you defining as Next gen? PS360Wii are all 7th gen consoles- so they are the next generation. They are all in some way or another an improvement over the 6th gen consoles hardware wise. You can argue the leap may not be so great with the Wii in comparison to the leap in power from xbox to 360 vs xbox to Wii.

I dont think you can argue that one system is more next gen then the other. I think you have to lay it on the software. Can a developer use graphics in a way never seen before? Yes. Can a developer use the controls in a way never experienced before? Yes. The public will decide wich is more important for them.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Generally, next generation will be evolutionary, not revolutionary. I find even the Wiimote is only evolutionary because it doesn't really allow for fine control. Very few games come along that are revolutionary every generation. Last generation I would say that Halo, Shenmue, GTA, Splinter Cell, and ICO/SotC were truly revolutionary. This generation will only see a handful of revolutionary games, but it will see plenty of next-generation evolutionary games like Gears of War.

 

[Naboomagnoli]

Ok, so with that logic, most, if not all, 360 games are basically not next gen on all fronts as well. Because for one they lack an immersive control system. The got the HD but not the 3D(controls)
And Wii got the 3D but not the HD.
Which are you going to choose?

Exactly, which is why calling all games on a format next-gen solely based on the hardware is so flawed.

I dont think you can argue that one system is more next gen then the other. I think you have to lay it on the software. Can a developer use graphics in a way never seen before? Yes. Can a developer use the controls in a way never experienced before? Yes. The public will decide wich is more important for them.

What about physics, quantity of stuff on-screen, AI, procedural animation, HD camera-based controls, voice recognition etc? The point of this thread, I thought, was that the "next gen" is about far more than just next gen graphics, or next gen controls. Again, the reason Wii was mentioned in the OP was that while a proportion of the games are next gen, there is also a proportion that aren't. The Wii isn't exempt from criticism on this front solely because of its controller, just as X360 and PS3 can't call their games next gen solely based on graphics. There needs to be a lot more to the game than that.

 

[N3xtG3nGam3r]

Uhh, okay, i was talking more of the technology used in the games guys, but thanks for drifting 100 miles off topic.

I was referring to things like animation, physics, and somewhat graphics. We all know that the graphics will be really good, but i was talking physics and animations.

You are right though, the Wii will not compete in any of these categories with the 360 or PS3, sorry i mentioned it.

This thread is different from the other one. Im not asking what companies push the button, because i already know which ones do, and lucasarts is by far one of the top 3. I wanted you guys to discuss the potential of this technology described in this article.