Sony "OS"

[JF_Aidan_Pryde]

With all the recent talk on CELL and the "Digital Dream" of sealess connection, the only peice lacking seems to be the OS. As Vince mentioned, for Sony, the front end and back end is well covered, all that's needed (assuming all goes well) is the connectivity via a CELL network and common OS. Would it be safe to rule out Sony using a MS OS? If Sony does develope their own OS, it would be more likely to be a Linux deriviate I presume. PS2 Linux kit is a good example although that's red hat the last time I checked.

However, Linux in the end is still linux and unless Sony does some serious black magic, I don't see it becoming *real mainstream*. Is it not possible that in the end, Sony will need MS's help in the mid-end and MS will find the perfect partner in providing the diverse consumer hardware? Or have they already decided partnership is impossible and must fight to the death?

 

[duffer]

I doubt very much Sony would use a Microsoft-based OS for the PS3. They have too much NIH, too much pride, too much distrust of MS, and too little need for a real OS.

A full OS is pretty much a waste for a game console. OS's are good at letting multiple programs share a computer's resources and at masking differences between different kinds of hardware. A game console usually runs only one program at a time, and all game consoles from a specific vendor have pretty much the same hardware.

Microsoft supplies an OS with Xbox, but I'm not sure if they do that for any real reason other than they're an OS company, so it's the only way they know how to write software.

All you really need on a game console is a program loader. Everything else can be provided as a library that links into each game. Calling a subroutine library an OS is stretching the term a little.

Kutigari can show slides describing a Cell OS that transparently distributes application workloads all he wants, but that doesn't have anything to do with reality. There's very little benefit for a game's servers to be running the same CPU or OS as the game console itself. And in fact, for servers it would be really wasteful to spend the money to design new hardware and write a new OS rather than using one of the existing OSs.

I expect most PS3 multiplayer games to use x86-based Linux servers.

 

[DemoCoder]

There are only two OSes that matter in the world now -- MS and Linux(or FreeBSD). Anyone building consumer hardware has the choice of Windows CE/NTEmbedded or EmbeddedLinux. Sure, there are lots of third party OSes like Symbian, Wind River, QNX, etc, but the amount of available apps, source, and development tools are behind those two.

If you want to build your own consumer OS. Grab linux/bsd source, modify. Writing from scratch is no longer an option in today's world.

 

[_KD_]

Depends. If Linux don't enter the market themselves, I'm going to take a wild guess and say Sony will use one of their custom made products for the Playstation 2. However, I'm sure the PS2 will use some sort of OS (Not a true one, though).

 

[Fafalada]

OS's are good at letting multiple programs share a computer's resources and at masking differences between different kinds of hardware. A game console usually runs only one program at a time, and all game consoles from a specific vendor have pretty much the same hardware.

So do PDAs, and they've always used an OS regardless, even the outdated Palm tech. Non-x86 personal computers were running mostly standardized hw as well, yet most of them had at least a rudimentary OS,
and some were even running OSs that were 10 years ahead of Windows.

That said, I would guess the OS thing is twofold. First, you'll need Something to run the GRID. And second, considering that both MS and Sony's consoles are fast moving away from game box only, and into becoming multi functional in other respects, you get reasoning for an OS on those boxes as well.

 

[Geeforcer]

I heard a rumor that one of reasons Xbox came about in the first place is because Sony refused to use MS OS for PSX2. Any truth to that?

 

[archie4oz]

Well does anybody remember NEWS (Sony's BSD variant for their NEWS/MIPS workstations)?

Of course then there's Aperios (in various consumer electronics to some degree, including my girlfriend's AIBO). I wouldn't be too surprised if SCE is leveraging CSL and SOCOM (Sony's Computer Science research labs), considering all the interesting things they work on...

 

[duffer]

OS's are good at letting multiple programs share a computer's resources and at masking differences between different kinds of hardware. A game console usually runs only one program at a time, and all game consoles from a specific vendor have pretty much the same hardware.

So do PDAs, and they've always used an OS regardless, even the outdated Palm tech.

PDAs are not at all like game consoles. Different PDAs from the same vendor have wildly different hardware implementations. The OS is used to mask these differences from the applications.

In addition, WinCE PDAs allow allow multiple programs to run at once.

 

[hughJ]

if we're following the same topic that Vince managed to flesh out in the previous thread, we're not simply talking about a basic OS for a standard new console.. but something that'd take advantage Cell architecture and be able to interact with various other future possible 'Cell' electronics/appliances(internet/TV/homeaudio/sattelite/console/"PC"/"VCR"/camcorder/etc) in the home.. once you get to that point, I think a much beefier/multi-purpose OS would need to come into play..

 

[Vince]

I'd wish to stay out of these conversations for they don't get me anywhere but the 'bottom of the hill' and being shit on by people, but Faf raises a good pt.

That said, I would guess the OS thing is twofold. First, you'll need Something to run the GRID. And second, considering that both MS and Sony's consoles are fast moving away from game box only, and into becoming multi functional in other respects, you get reasoning for an OS on those boxes as well.

We're moving towards higher and higher levels of extraction from the hardwares underlying architecture with every advance of OGL or DX. With MS's HLSL and Stanford's RT-HLSL, how much further will this progress?

Will Faf be programming to an OS in a few years?

Also, with IBM's profound influence on Sony's designing and ideology - I think Linux will be used at some level. Not to mention theiur using PS2 Linux for widespread testing of distibuted computing and OS. (Ben, where'd the slides go?)

 

[MfA]

If they use Linux for compatibility and PR reasons Id soonest see it run as a service on top of a microkernel.

 

[Nite_Hawk]

Mfa:

What exactly do you mean by running linux ontop of a microkernel? Do you mean something along the lines of HURD? (the GNU utilities on a non-linux kernel) or do you mean to actually run the linux kernel inside something else?

Nite_Hawk

 

[MfA]

I mean something along the line of L4-Linux ... and RT-Linux (which I dislike mentioning because the authors of RT-Linux claim intellectual ownership of the concept, L4-Linux is about the same age though and they quite clearly came up with the concept quite independently). So that would be your second option, I wouldnt say it would be running inside though ... more like on top.