Sony Disable “Install Other OS” in firmware (v3.21)

[Shifty Geezer]

While I agree that OtherOS wasn't a part of the advertised featureset from what I remember, it wasn't hidden in that it was in the XMB for everyone to see and explained in the manual. I don't think it right to reimburse every PS3 owner for it's loss, but for those who did lose OtherOS functionality there should probably be some recompense, with free Cell development boards for anyone who was developing Cell stuff.

 

[Aeoniss]

No it was advertised. They were touting it all over the web and at conferences...

Now on the box? I dunno anymore..If I only had my day 1 60GB box I could see if it was on the back of the box. I'm pretty sure it was though.

What is the current legal state of affairs with Sony over this? Is the lawsuit moving forward?

 

[obonicus]

When this news came out I looked for it on my 60Gb box, but I didn't find it.

 

[specwarGP2]

No it was advertised. They were touting it all over the web and at conferences...

Now on the box? I dunno anymore..If I only had my day 1 60GB box I could see if it was on the back of the box. I'm pretty sure it was though.

What is the current legal state of affairs with Sony over this? Is the lawsuit moving forward?

If that's considered advertising then Peter Molyneux can be sued for false advertising too.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

It wasn't on the box but it was in the manual as someone noted above. Meaning it was put forth as an integral part of the machine as sold. Assuming we want to disregard all statements and PR put out by Sony advocating this feature.

It would be similar to removing the fast forward and rewind features of media players a few years after the fact even though it may not have been printed on the box it came in. Or the record feature of a VCR (not all VCR boxes touted the ability to record video) due to concerns it may be used for piracy.

Regards,
SB

 

[patsu]

It's not that clear cut. The fact remains that few people use PS3 Linux, and it is now being used as a vessel to hack into GameOS. OTOH, record is a core feature of the VCR.

This one is probably best left for the courts to decide.

 

[JPT]

As mentioned in an earlier post, I think we need to look at the bigger picture in this case. Its not about removing OtherOS, but about removing a feature that was included at purchase time and whether that is acceptable.

In the specific case of OtherOS, I'd guess that it needs to be proved that Sony intended the OtherOS as feature that you payed for with the PS3 or that Sony proves they just lumped it in there for "free" just to be nice.

Then I guess we/the courts need to create some rules that should guide vendors to clarify what is a "free" and none supported ie removable feature in the future. And what needs to be considered as a core feature that can never be removed etc

 

[patsu]

Air Force may suffer collateral damage from PS3 firmware update:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/05/how-removing-ps3-linux-hurts-the-air-force.ars

When Sony issued a recent PlayStation 3 update removing the device's ability to install alternate operating systems like Linux, it did so to protect copyrighted content—but several research projects suffered collateral damage.

The Air Force is one example. The Air Force Research Laboratory in Rome, New York picked up 336 PS3 systems in 2009 and built itself a 53 teraFLOP processing cluster. Once completed as a proof of concept, Air Force researchers then scaled up by a factor of six and went in search of 2,200 more consoles (later scaled back to 1,700). The $663,000 contract was awarded on January 6, 2010, to a small company called Fixstars that could provide 1,700 160GB PS3 systems to the government.

Getting that many units was difficult enough that the government required bidders to get a letter from Sony certifying that the units were actually available.

...

They should have worked out a win-win deal with Sony long ago.

 

[obonicus]

Wouldn't Sony have to actually sell the PS3s at above MSRPs to make up for the fact that they'll probably never run a Blu-Ray or game?

 

[flynn]

Wouldn't Sony have to actually sell the PS3s at above MSRPs to make up for the fact that they'll probably never run a Blu-Ray or game?

Absolutely. I doubt the Air Force walks into Gamestop to get their gear.

 

[itch]

I'm confused. Where did they get 1700 fat ps3's? Sony had them lying around?

 

[Gradthrawn]

Absolutely. I doubt the Air Force walks into Gamestop to get their gear.

I'm confused. Where did they get 1700 fat ps3's? Sony had them lying around?

That's actually covered in the article linked to by Patsu. Short and sweet, a 3rd party vendor (with a letter from Sony stating that many PS3 Heavies were even available).

 

[Alucardx23]

Sony refunding all PS3 owners for removing an advertised feature

In the end of April the firm had filed a class action lawsuit against Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc., for Sony's decision to force users of its Playstation 3 console to either install an update that would disable the console's "Other OS" feature or lose the ability to play games with other users in the network. Because Sony failed to defend it's intentions in court, the judge decided that Sony will have to pay every PS3 owner, who bought his PS3 before March 27, 2010, a refund of 50% of the price when purchased.

The firm thanks all the PS3 owners who mailed, which made our voice even louder. PS3 owners that haven't mailed us should make contact with Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc to claim their refund. An European firm will also file a class action law suit against Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, Inc. We hope that we've done the PS3 owners a service. We are very glad as this is once of the biggest victory's in our firm's history.

Sony will also be at handing out refunds at "E3", a large video-gaming event, to all registered PS3 owners. A new article will be posted very soon on how Sony will be handling this matter.

http://www.mdpcelaw.com/news.cfm?article=129

Edit: Could be fake hacked update.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21660611&postcount=28

 

[patsu]

Glad that got cleared up !

Now focus on GameOS and Android/Google TV.

EDIT: ... or may be not. This line of argument is pretty compelling too:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=21660611#post21660611

1) the law firm has existed for at least 2 years and that is their webpage.

2) it is the law firm that was reported to have filed the class action suit against sony.

3) here's the court docket for the case--no final ruling, as you can see.

4) here's a motion that sets a very minor preliminary hearing on july 15th, 2010 (which implies that contrary to the "news release", the only way it'd end this week is if sony settled)

5) this news update doesn't mention a judge, the circuit, the circumstances of the ruling, and it's not written in proper english. it's clearly not written by a member of the firm. it also refers to unrelated litigation in another jurisdiction as if it matters. also, despite the fact that this is a huge, renowned firm that's won tons of major decisions, the news release for some reason brags about this one as if it's special when really it isn't. also, class action lawsuits don't get "50%" refunds. also clearly sony isn't going to hand out court judgments at a trade show. the update also claims sony didn't "defend their position in court" when clearly they have.

6) courts don't make rulings on sundays, hurrr

7) this stipulation, AGREED TO BY ALL PARTIES, says that Sony has until June 29th, 2010, to even make their preliminary response to the issue, let alone declare it over and done

so my guess is that their site got hacked

 

[SG79]

That does sound awfully fishy. If if were remotely true, someone at Sony must have lost their marbles to suggest or decide offering a whopping 50% refund for any feature, let alone a minor one.

Although the only logical angle would be refunding registered owners only, so if you're not, tough luck. Still, fishy.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Clearly bunkum. 50% refund is nonsense wishful thinking. OtherOS is not nor ever has been worth half the value of the PS3 to 99.999% of PS3 owners at least, and there's no way on Earth a court would order that much of a refund, nor that Sony would agree to it without extremely lengthy legal wranlging.

 

[Acert93]

Clearly bunkum. 50% refund is nonsense wishful thinking. OtherOS is not nor ever has been worth half the value of the PS3 to 99.999% of PS3 owners at least, and there's no way on Earth a court would order that much of a refund, nor that Sony would agree to it without extremely lengthy legal wranlging.

True, but such lawsuits are not always based on "value." See: Rumble.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Rumble was a loss to the patent holders, who actually had a legal right to compensation. Joe Public doesn't even know they had OtherOS to lose, and apart from being greedy and willing to take anything on offer, quite happy to claim removing OtherOS was an infringement of their Human Rights and one or other Ammendments if it means a few bucks for nothing, they wouldn't bother about its removal. There's no fair nor sane reason to expect substantial payback. Even as a financial penalty it doesn't warrant losing $billions over this. Worst case, Sony just have to put OtherOS back on.

 

[Acert93]

Rumble was a loss to the patent holders, who actually had a legal right to compensation. Joe Public doesn't even know they had OtherOS to lose, and apart from being greedy and willing to take anything on offer, quite happy to claim removing OtherOS was an infringement of their Human Rights and one or other Ammendments if it means a few bucks for nothing, they wouldn't bother about its removal. There's no fair nor sane reason to expect substantial payback. Even as a financial penalty it doesn't warrant losing $billions over this. Worst case, Sony just have to put OtherOS back on.

The problem is you are valuating the feature on the behalf of others.

Put another way, I have no interest in Bluray so I think Sony has the right to remove it and not compensate you because from where I stand it is pretty worthless.

Those sort of arguements (and yes, BluRay > OtherOS) are really neither here or there. The material facts are Sony marketed a feature, said it wouldn't be removed, and then removed it. This harmed consumers. Even if you roll your eyes and think it is stupid, lame, etc... you aren't those consumers. Further, Sony should have never marketed the feature.

But you are right that it may take a major class action lawsuit to make Sony restore the feature. The issue is less how valuable, on average, the feature was but the fact it was a supported feature, marketed, and purchased for such by some consumers and later said consumers had to choose between keeping said feature or losing other supported features.

It could be an interesting battleground going forward in terms of corporate vs. consumer rights. I am sure Sony wants to have the end say in what features they maintain and provide for all their products.

 

[SG79]

The feature was never really marketed; the push has always been about BD and games. A few PR heads opened their mouths very early on as noted in the lawsuit and fueled it.

The case is messy, no doubt about it. But one thing is for sure, Sony's PR is going to be very calculated from now on.