GHost said:
Wait, is this the same Eclipse program I know of? This http://www.eclipse.org/ eclipse? Ugh, I hated using it, though it seemed like it could be very useful once you're familiar with it.
Regarding what Factor 5 is doing next...
- Thread starter Qroach
- Start date
- Status
Wait, is this the same Eclipse program I know of? This http://www.eclipse.org/ eclipse? Ugh, I hated using it, though it seemed like it could be very useful once you're familiar with it.
Fox5 said:
Exactly. It does get you really ahead once you start getting used to the so many code-refactoring (as an example) features it provides. Additionally it's open plugin architecture gets Eclipse truly integrated with your programming language and tools - tough it takes plugin development time of course, which was pushed in the direction of Java by IBM for now.
And even now its at least comparable in speed and more stable than VS.net (you need more RAM though).
What I meant was that F5 (and for that matter any other developer) might be just as excited about the other console manufacturers's dev tools as they are now about XNA. We just haven't seen them yet.
Like I said I was interested in the discussion, not that it invovled factor 5.
Wrong. there's many people that have displayed what they really think of SK and Factor 5 recently. If you can't see that then that's simply becuase you're a fan. I haven't seen any xbox fans happy about the move, as you say Factor 5 isn't developing for the xbox and they haven't annouced that they are developing for any specific platform.
However the xbox fans are simply pointing out the obvious, that nintendo lost a developer for gamecube and nothing more. It fans like yourself that are running around saying they aren't developing for xbox, even though no one here is really claiming that with any meaning. Like i said before, it sounds like you're on damage control.
As if things don't change? A year ago Julian also said they weren't developing for any other platforms other than the gamecube. Look what is happeneing now.
Wrong, that's not what XNA is ONLY about. XNA is teh entire xbox/Xbox 2 and PC development environment rolled into a single package. It doesn't focus on porting, nor does is that what it will only be used for. every xbox developer is going to be using XNA when it's released.
XNA is a combination of all the seprate development tools on xbox and PC rolled it one package, and nothng more. I don't think you're qualified to make an assesment like that, and IMO you don't know what you are talking about. XNA is a development environment, and if Xbox 2 is easier to program then PS3, that the usage of XNA is the exact reason it would be easier.
Qroach:
> Wrong. there's many people that have displayed what they really think
> of SK and Factor 5 recently.
Surely you can back this up with concrete examples? People that used to praise their games but now are putting them down.
> If you can't see that then that's simply becuase you're a fan.
Don't let that stop you from posting the evidence I'm sure you must have.
> I haven't seen any xbox fans happy about the move
"that's simply becuase you're a fan"
http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=257073
I haven't been to a single board where Xbots aren't eating this up.
> as you say Factor 5 isn't developing for the xbox and they haven't
> annouced that they are developing for any specific platform.
Xbox fans aren't too bright.
> As if things don't change?
This hasn't.
> A year ago Julian also said they weren't developing for any other
> platforms other than the gamecube.
A year ago they weren't developing games for other platforms than GameCube. A year ago they were certainly open to the possibility of developing for a different platform after RS3 was finished.
> It doesn't focus on porting, nor does is that what it will only be used for.
It doesn't focus on porting but that's where the main benifit lies.
> and if Xbox 2 is easier to program then PS3, that the usage of XNA is
> the exact reason it would be easier.
XNA is a development initiative. It takes a bunch of existing technologies and markets them in a new way. Xbox developers already have most of this technology available to them. The only new thing is DX HLSL and did anyone really believe M$ wouldn't make that available to Xbox 2 devs?
No, if Xbox 2 is easier to develop for (as I expect it to be) it will be because PS3 is much more complicated hardware.
> Wrong. there's many people that have displayed what they really think
> of SK and Factor 5 recently.
Surely you can back this up with concrete examples? People that used to praise their games but now are putting them down.
> If you can't see that then that's simply becuase you're a fan.
Don't let that stop you from posting the evidence I'm sure you must have.
> I haven't seen any xbox fans happy about the move
"that's simply becuase you're a fan"
http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=257073
I haven't been to a single board where Xbots aren't eating this up.
> as you say Factor 5 isn't developing for the xbox and they haven't
> annouced that they are developing for any specific platform.
Xbox fans aren't too bright.
> As if things don't change?
This hasn't.
> A year ago Julian also said they weren't developing for any other
> platforms other than the gamecube.
A year ago they weren't developing games for other platforms than GameCube. A year ago they were certainly open to the possibility of developing for a different platform after RS3 was finished.
> It doesn't focus on porting, nor does is that what it will only be used for.
It doesn't focus on porting but that's where the main benifit lies.
> and if Xbox 2 is easier to program then PS3, that the usage of XNA is
> the exact reason it would be easier.
XNA is a development initiative. It takes a bunch of existing technologies and markets them in a new way. Xbox developers already have most of this technology available to them. The only new thing is DX HLSL and did anyone really believe M$ wouldn't make that available to Xbox 2 devs?
No, if Xbox 2 is easier to develop for (as I expect it to be) it will be because PS3 is much more complicated hardware.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Or because MS is an experienced software company. 
Seriously Cybamerc, you've got some issues. Especially when you say things like "Xbox fans aren't too bright". I don't always agree with what hardcore Nintendo and Sony fans have to say, but I certainly respect them. You should try that sometime.
Seriously Cybamerc, you've got some issues. Especially when you say things like "Xbox fans aren't too bright". I don't always agree with what hardcore Nintendo and Sony fans have to say, but I certainly respect them. You should try that sometime.
God you have a short memory. go back to the start of the Silicon knights thread and on the first page and read the posts from teasy. He was one fan that never had a bad thing to say about SK when they were exclusive to nintendo, suddenly he has a realization that...
...and that was just regarding Silicon knights. Funny i've never seen a negative comment about that company prior to these annoucements form nintendo fans. I can remrmber arguing wtih people on this board abotu how the game wasn't going to sell well on gamecube and hhow it wasn't nearly as good as you pumped it up to be. There are other nintendo fans saying the same things about Factor 5 all over the net.
Just did that above, like I said before, these werre two companies no nintendo fan had anything bad to say about BEFORE the recent annoucements. Any more requests?
I went through every post in that thread, all 13 pages of it, and I only saw one post that said "i'd like to see what factor 5 could do with xbox hardware".
So where are these "xbots" that are "eating this up"? It looks like pople are making the same posts as this thread where they say this is a blow to nintendo. Where are the xbox fans that are happy about facotr 5's possible support of xbox? I see some people making fun of the cube fans(like yourself) that are in denial or are suddenly saying factor 5 sucked, but nothing more than that.
What's even more pathetic IMO, is that a hardcore cube fan like yourself goes to xbox boards to read what they are saying, despite hating MS/Xbox altogether. That's the sure sign of a F@nboy.
You're not too bright. You shouldn't make generalizations like that.
Obvisouly it has if they are now developing for other platforms, duh.
uh-huh. So says the person that has no clue what they were thinking.
That ONLY benefits people who are porting to the PC, that doesn't really apply to 80% of console developers (like Factor 5), so saying XNA's main benefit is that, is a moot point. Obviously it has other benefits if a concole only developer like factor 5 provided praises about it. I can't understand how you're missing that point.
That's beside the point cybermerc, the point of the tools is that they make development easier no matter if they are new tools or old tools. Also you didn't repond to what I said. Let me repeat it for you once again, if Xbox 2 is easier to program for then PS3, it's becuase of the development tools! Only a fool would think otherwise.
Answer this, what exactly makes a hardware platform easy or difficult to develop on. The key word is DEVELOP. It's the tools cybermerc, regardless of how complicated the hardware is. If you can't grasp that then you really shouldn't be attemting to argue!
Cybamerc said:
Qroach said:
Nintendo fan reaction on teamxbox. Gone suddenly ironic (i hope this is irony) (BTW, what does in the world a Nfan do posting on an Xbox fansite?)
Cybamerc said:
Funny how "rumors", once irrelevants, are now told like they were undeniable facts. How in the world will you be able to tell for wich platform they are developing , NOW. You are extrapolating from theirs sayings at a time when they were, by their own words, Nintendo's exclusivity, thoses are no longer relevant.
Cybamerc said:
Do we really need this? :?
marconelly!
Veteran
Well, by Julian's own words from just two days ago (after they've announced they will not be making games for the Cube) he said they will not making anything for the current gen consoles, and will just be working on the next gen stuff. So, PSP, DS, XB2, N5, PS3 is all possibility, but Xbox, PS2 or GC is not.
Qroach:
> God you have a short memory.
No, but I have the ability to read and comprehend full sentences unlike you.
> He was one fan that never had a bad thing to say about SK when they
> were exclusive to nintendo, suddenly he has a realization that...
Teasy has never praised SK for its technical skills so by pointing out that SK is not "a top developer as far as graphics technology goes" he's not in any way going against his own words.
You also left out the part where Teasy states that he can't remember when he last heard "Nintendo related news this bad!". Teasy has been a huge advocate of Eternal Darkness. I haven't seen that change.
So once again you've been exposed as a liar and as a troll. I simply can't believe that the moderators let you use this board as your private playground. You need to be banned.
> There are other nintendo fans saying the same things about Factor 5 all
> over the net.
Great, let's have some examples. Before and after.
> So where are these "xbots" that are "eating this up"?
Look at the laughing emoticons, the snide remarks. They're having a field day.
> is that a hardcore cube fan like yourself goes to xbox boards to read
> what they are saying, despite hating MS/Xbox altogether.
You wanted an example and I knew TXB wouldn't disappoint.
> Obvisouly it has if they are now developing for other platforms, duh.
Julian said last year that Factor 5 wouldn't be developing for Xbox. They're not. Hence nothing has changed in that regard.
> uh-huh. So says the person that has no clue what they were thinking.
This is all part of public record.
> That ONLY benefits people who are porting to the PC, that doesn't really
> apply to 80% of console developers (like Factor 5)
Factor 5 is as much a PC developer as it is a console developer.
> the point of the tools is that they make development easier no matter if
> they are new tools or old tools.
The point is that it's old wine in new bottles. XNA doesn't make anything easier to set-top box developers because the tools are already available to them. The only ones affected by this are port houses and PC devs who get access to Xbox Live and a few tools that were previously only available to Xbox devs.
> It's the tools cybermerc, regardless of how complicated the hardware is.
But the tools are designed around the hardware. If you have a complex architecture it is more difficult to provide a proper toolset than if you have a simple architecture. If Sony fails to provide a proper toolset for PS3 it will be because of the complixity of the architecture. Just as it was with PS2. Just as it was with N64. Just as it was with Saturn. Streamlined architectures like PS1 and GameCube (and PSP supposedly) had no such problems.
M$ is not the only company that knows how to write an API (and like most of M$' products D3D started out as an acquisition).
> God you have a short memory.
No, but I have the ability to read and comprehend full sentences unlike you.
> He was one fan that never had a bad thing to say about SK when they
> were exclusive to nintendo, suddenly he has a realization that...
Teasy has never praised SK for its technical skills so by pointing out that SK is not "a top developer as far as graphics technology goes" he's not in any way going against his own words.
You also left out the part where Teasy states that he can't remember when he last heard "Nintendo related news this bad!". Teasy has been a huge advocate of Eternal Darkness. I haven't seen that change.
So once again you've been exposed as a liar and as a troll. I simply can't believe that the moderators let you use this board as your private playground. You need to be banned.
> There are other nintendo fans saying the same things about Factor 5 all
> over the net.
Great, let's have some examples. Before and after.
> So where are these "xbots" that are "eating this up"?
Look at the laughing emoticons, the snide remarks. They're having a field day.
> is that a hardcore cube fan like yourself goes to xbox boards to read
> what they are saying, despite hating MS/Xbox altogether.
You wanted an example and I knew TXB wouldn't disappoint.
> Obvisouly it has if they are now developing for other platforms, duh.
Julian said last year that Factor 5 wouldn't be developing for Xbox. They're not. Hence nothing has changed in that regard.
> uh-huh. So says the person that has no clue what they were thinking.
This is all part of public record.
> That ONLY benefits people who are porting to the PC, that doesn't really
> apply to 80% of console developers (like Factor 5)
Factor 5 is as much a PC developer as it is a console developer.
> the point of the tools is that they make development easier no matter if
> they are new tools or old tools.
The point is that it's old wine in new bottles. XNA doesn't make anything easier to set-top box developers because the tools are already available to them. The only ones affected by this are port houses and PC devs who get access to Xbox Live and a few tools that were previously only available to Xbox devs.
> It's the tools cybermerc, regardless of how complicated the hardware is.
But the tools are designed around the hardware. If you have a complex architecture it is more difficult to provide a proper toolset than if you have a simple architecture. If Sony fails to provide a proper toolset for PS3 it will be because of the complixity of the architecture. Just as it was with PS2. Just as it was with N64. Just as it was with Saturn. Streamlined architectures like PS1 and GameCube (and PSP supposedly) had no such problems.
M$ is not the only company that knows how to write an API (and like most of M$' products D3D started out as an acquisition).
Well it's not unlike many other tools in that regard. I have far more hate stories to tell about Visual Studio then not (though in part that's because I've used most of its iterations, including the truly horrible ones like 4.0), but I can still acknowledge it's one of the best tools out there regardless.Fox5 said:
Anyway afaik Eclipse has been getting its recognition for good reasons too.
Anyhow, I would like to see PS3 come out of the box with something like Eclipse, partly for the fun of it
and also it could be interesting seeing the effects, right now PS2 development is mostly done in Visual Studio too (coupled with various CodeWarior/ProDG etc. integrations).I've seen that you don't know how to do that on most occasions. Let's see what you wrote in this thread.
Like I said, you have a short memory. I'm can recall both him and yourself in a thread discussing the insantiy effects and how it was such a good gameplay idea about a year ago (before the games release). how the graphics were amazing because they were using a foolish amount of rendering passes (that you claimed xbox couldn't do) but you know what, that's all old news. You guys have been wrong so many times in the past, that you probably don't recall anything. Blanked from your memeory more than liklely. Teasy never said a bad or negative thing regarding factor 5, ever. But now he has... oh well, it must be a fluke.
Do you want to argue more about all the mature titles nintendo is putting on gamecube and how they aren't focusign a lot of marketing power to yournger children? Oh I bet you forgot we already argued that over and over again and you were wrong.
So what if he said that something about bad news? it IS bad news. That's NOT the point. He still NEVER had a bad thing to say about silicon knights and suddenly has, which is the ONLY point I'm making. I guess your ability to read and comprehend sentances has failed you... again.
Exposed? The only thing I exposed is that you don't have a clue what you are talking about, you throw out insults like candy, you're rude, you're annoying, you can never admit being wrong even when it's obvious to all that you don't know what you are talking about, and you're basically a troll.
Only a hardcore nintendo f@nboy would agree with you, as that would require less sense then reason for such an event to occur. I'm certain that the majoiryt of hardcore nintendo fans are a LOT smarter than yourself.
Go to gaming age and read the threads, Or IGN and read the threads on the gamecube board. I don't even have to look at IGN and know what people are saying there! I'm not going to bother posting something you'll still deny anyway. If you can take the time to troll an xbox board, you should have plenty of time to look for comments from nintendo fans.
So what, you missed the point again cybermerc! So much for reading and comprehending eh? To jog your memeory, you said...
"There are a lot of Xbots that are suddenly very excited about F5 but that's about it."
As I already described that is NOT happeneing. You kept bringing up xbox in this discussion like all xbox fans were excited for Factor 5 to develop for xbox and are happy about it. I know you're going to claim, I never said "developing" but perhaps you could explain to everyone why those xbox fans would be "excited" as you call it. As I don't see any excited about it, I see xbox fans saying this is bad for nintendo and nothing more. Anyway, what you describe isn't happeneing at all (big suprise), ANYWHERE. So once again you're just making crap up!
You are wrong, there isn't any xbox fans excited about factor five as you claimed there was. Even the thread you posted didn't display that.
They also said they would only support the cube and nintendo platforms, that has obviously changed! You want to explain to me again how things don' change? I guess SK really isn;t developing for all platforms again? Becuase as you say, things don't change. Having trouble reading and comprehending what you've written?
Everyone can see you don't have a leg to stand on. It's pathetic really.
Since when? stop making crap up. Factor 5 is a console only developer and have been for a very long time.
Once again, you don't know what you are talking about. let me repeat what I already wrote. "IF Xbox 2 is easier to develop for than PS3, it's because of the toolset (like XNA).
There's no point in repeating what I already told you. We all know they are exsisting tools put into one package. So what, that's beside the point! Julian from factor 5 can see the benefit of these tools without needing to develop on the PC, But YOU can't. You aren't a developer. You're a a troll, that has no interest in a proper discussion. Why don't you throw a few more "xbots" comments in there in a pathetic attemtp to insult me or other xbox fans at beyond 3D.
Once again you display your lack of knowledge. You never answered my question and carefully crafted your answer incorrectly. I asked "what makes a platform easy or hard to develop for"? We're talking about XNA which is the development platform for PC and Xbox. Developers don't give two $hits how hard it is for MS or Sony or nintendo to create thier tools internally. They are ONLY interested in a complete, stable, easy to use development platform.
like I said, if you can't understand that, you shouldn't be arguing it. It's all about reading and comprehending, as you proved you can't do.
Wrong again. AFAIK D3D was developed from inside MS, I wroked on a project (internal for MS) that used early versions of direct X that never saw the light of day. Either way even if you were right, I certainly wouldn't beleive you asfter all the nonsense you posted in this thread.
Oh now that is completely out of order and I won't have it. To bring me into your petty arguments is bad enough. But to twist things as you have is even worse.
That comment was in reply to a comment about SN possibly leaving Nintendo due to technical (graphical) differences. So I, rightly, pointing out that graphics have never been the strong point of Silicon Knights. I have never claimed in the past that SN are a top tier developer in what they can push out of HW technically. I also, in the same comment, called there artwork excellent. In the very same sentence I said that I loved ED and liked MGS:TS a lot.. conveniently you cut that part of the comment out when you quoted it. Here is my full comment:
In the same post you quoted that comment from, right above it, I said I couldn't remember Nintendo related news this bad. I questioned Nintendo's sanity for god sake! Since then I have never once posted anything that contradicts that. Never have I called into question how good there games are and how much I would like to see them stay. Honestly this is just so uncalled for and I want an apologie Quincy!
Qroach
> I'm can recall both him and yourself in a thread discussing the insantiy
> effects and how it was such a good gameplay idea about a year ago
> (before the games release).
The game came out nearly two years ago. So much for your memory.
That said, you claim these things but fail to actually provide any evidence. I actually did a search on all of Teasy's messages containing the names: "Silicon Knights", "Eternal Darkness", "Metal Gear Solid" and different variations on these names. Never did he say these things you claim nor anything remotely similar.
The times I've even mentioned ED on this board can be counted on one hand.
I think it's simply outrageous that you're using these falsified claims to discredit other members of this board and I would like to put forth a complaint to the moderators and urge them to deal with this problem.
> Teasy never said a bad or negative thing regarding factor 5, ever. But
> now he has...
Another lie! Where are you getting these ridiculous ideas from?
> So what if he said that something about bad news?
He is sad to them go. Regardless of their technical skills (which he didn't even claim were bad just not in the top league of GC devs) he still enjoys their games.
> He still NEVER had a bad thing to say about silicon knights and suddenly
> has, which is the ONLY point I'm making.
You are simply delusional. Completely off your rocker.
> Go to gaming age and read the threads, Or IGN and read the threads
> on the gamecube board.
No no... provide me with concrete evidence. Before and after posts. No less will do.
> You kept bringing up xbox in this discussion like all xbox fans were
> excited for Factor 5 to develop for xbox and are happy about it.
That's not what I said at all. I said they were excited about Factor 5. Why that is one can only guess.
> there isn't any xbox fans excited about factor five as you claimed there was.
The fact that they bother to post certainly indicate some level of excitement. What fuels the excitement is another matter.
> Everyone can see you don't have a leg to stand on.
EGM issue 167, June 2003:
> Factor 5 is a console only developer and have been for a very long time.
Rogue Squadron, Battle for Naboo, MusyX, DivX SDK.
> AFAIK D3D was developed from inside MS
D3D is based on the Reality Lab 3D API that M$ got through the acquisition of RenderMorphics.
Public. Fucking. Record.
> I'm can recall both him and yourself in a thread discussing the insantiy
> effects and how it was such a good gameplay idea about a year ago
> (before the games release).
The game came out nearly two years ago. So much for your memory.
That said, you claim these things but fail to actually provide any evidence. I actually did a search on all of Teasy's messages containing the names: "Silicon Knights", "Eternal Darkness", "Metal Gear Solid" and different variations on these names. Never did he say these things you claim nor anything remotely similar.
The times I've even mentioned ED on this board can be counted on one hand.
I think it's simply outrageous that you're using these falsified claims to discredit other members of this board and I would like to put forth a complaint to the moderators and urge them to deal with this problem.
> Teasy never said a bad or negative thing regarding factor 5, ever. But
> now he has...
Another lie! Where are you getting these ridiculous ideas from?
> So what if he said that something about bad news?
He is sad to them go. Regardless of their technical skills (which he didn't even claim were bad just not in the top league of GC devs) he still enjoys their games.
> He still NEVER had a bad thing to say about silicon knights and suddenly
> has, which is the ONLY point I'm making.
You are simply delusional. Completely off your rocker.
> Go to gaming age and read the threads, Or IGN and read the threads
> on the gamecube board.
No no... provide me with concrete evidence. Before and after posts. No less will do.
> You kept bringing up xbox in this discussion like all xbox fans were
> excited for Factor 5 to develop for xbox and are happy about it.
That's not what I said at all. I said they were excited about Factor 5. Why that is one can only guess.
> there isn't any xbox fans excited about factor five as you claimed there was.
The fact that they bother to post certainly indicate some level of excitement. What fuels the excitement is another matter.
> Everyone can see you don't have a leg to stand on.
EGM issue 167, June 2003:
Public. Fucking. Record.
> Factor 5 is a console only developer and have been for a very long time.
Rogue Squadron, Battle for Naboo, MusyX, DivX SDK.
> AFAIK D3D was developed from inside MS
D3D is based on the Reality Lab 3D API that M$ got through the acquisition of RenderMorphics.
Public. Fucking. Record.
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