Recommended RTSes *spawn*

[swaaye]

I too love Supreme Commander:FA and can't believe there hasn't been a 'proper' sequal to it. I was on the FAF website the other week and noticed someone had just released a new AI for FA. The LOUD AI, and it's very good compared with the Sorian AI, worth a look. I'm waiting for a get together with friends/ brothers to test it properly over a LAN, but it is good on Skirmish.

I had high hopes for PA, but is doesn't have the fun factor or the satisfaction of SC, even with the Titans add-on. I keep trying to persevere but I really need my brothers/ friends to do so also, and that is the harder task, mostly down to the utterly stupid spawn points for LAN team games if you are playing on a single planet

As for AotS:E, that is what we're playing at the moment, I quite like it but it all seems a bit contrived with the 'path ways' and the shroud that even hides the lay of the land.

That LOUD AI for FA sounds very, very interesting. I will be giving that a try with my FA buddy sometime. We have Sorian AIx all figured out at this point.

Yeah, Planetary Annihilation doesn't do much for me either. It didn't help that it had tons of problems for a long time.

The AotS land shroud settings can be changed. It has a fog of war mode with visible terrain. The pathways and land fleets thing is why I feel the game is Land SoaSE. The land capture points work essentially like SoaSE's star systems. It's goofy but what can you do. Apparently Stardock thinks the formula is amazing.

 

[hoom]

the utterly stupid spawn points

Yeah the spawn points is one of the main & oddly unaddressed problems for PA.
Most of the time you don't get to use the multi-planet stuff because the AI (I never played it multiplayer) spawns same planet & often right next to you so you either beat it outright without expanding or you accidentally beat it while trying to build-up economy/tech to do one of the fun end-games.

One of the big ironies/criticisms of PA is that being on a sphere the screen area is very limited like more traditional RTSes.
For me I can live with it but it changed my view of normal RTSes, I now have a mental retcon where the limited view is due to horizon

 

[iroboto]

Thoughts on Civ series? Does that count here? I've never really followed it or even tried it yet.

 

[hoom]

Civ series are TBS/4X so not really applicable to an RTS thread.

Any thoughts on Cossacks series?
I never played them but they seem to have gotten pretty good reviews, 3 came out recently.

Has a very Age of Empires look to it but stuck to single pike & musket era.
Notable for having really large unit cap & self ordering (I think) unit formations.

 

[iroboto]

Starcraft Remastered is coming

 

[hoom]

Ugh, its just HD of the same 2D game
I am disappoint.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Agreed. All they did was rework the sprites to higher resolution ones and that's it.

Incredibly low effort by Blizzard, IMO. Would a transition to Starcraft II's engine with 3D assets take that much more work? Meh..

 

[hoom]

Well the gameplay wouldn't be the same, presumably much better by the way I think of it (bigger groups, better pathfinding) but I think the Korean market wants to keep it exactly the same.

I feel this is an appropriate time to point out I hate RTSes where 'gameplay' = fighting a shitty, limited UI.

PA has some really lovely quality of life things like Area Commands which is part of why I really like it.
eg early battle to scout you set a bot factory to repeat build T1 bots & patrol the entire planet, it'll pump out bots to continuously roam around the planet, not super efficient but will limit AI expansion unless/until he goes big on bombers.
Late battle you can set a bunch of factories to rally to one end of a teleporter on one planet, build up a huge army then send a space fabricator & radar over to another planet, build a teleporter, queue area attack the whole planet on the teleporter, then link it to the first teleporter & your army will stream out destroying everything.

 

[Putas]

Any thoughts on Cossacks series?
I never played them but they seem to have gotten pretty good reviews, 3 came out recently.

The original games were quite an achievement, with large formations rolling over big maps, yet somehow felt lot smoother than Age of Empires II. It has that king of slow building up approach, one game can go on for many hours.

 

[green.pixel]

There was a really good one that I can't remember the name of where you created your army units by mixing the genes of 2 different animals.

Relic's Impossible Creatures. It's on GoG and Steam now.

https://www.gog.com/game/Impossible_Creatures
http://store.steampowered.com/app/324680/

 

[swaaye]

I'd like to report in on Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak. I've beaten 7 campaign missions now and I find it satisfying. The storytelling is pretty good for a RTS and the gameplay is interesting and quite familiar if you've played the space games. Production values are good and on the same level as the old games.

 

[Davros]

There was a really good one that I can't remember the name of where you created your army units by mixing the genes of 2 different animals.

The was also GeneWars by bullfrog (oh how we miss you)
"GeneWars is a RTS game where you study certain species of creatures, then create hybrids of these. "

 

[hoom]

Haven't played it yet but just discovered there is a new Eugen Systems game:
Steel Division: Normandy 44

Looks like it takes the great tactical play of Red Dragon & put it in WWII setting like RUSE.
Non-descript title aside it sounds like a recipe for great success

Edit: a bit of gameplay

 

[Cyan]

I just bought Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak but haven't play it yet. I'm curious as to whether it's as puzzley as the space game. And if it has that damned auto-balancing nonsense.

Supreme Commander Forged Alliance is my mainstay and has been forever now. I play fairly often with a friend. We like to play against the Sorian AI. The horrific battles make even a modern system choke at times hehe. Look up Forged Alliance Forever.

Ashes of the Singularity: Escalation. It essentially plays like a form of Sins of a Solar Empire. It's fairly unique I suppose with how its "land fleets" work. Stardock keeps investing into improvements for the game too.

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion anniversary edition is apparently coming soon. SoaSE is basically a 4X space game gone RTS. Simplified diplomacy and research, huge fleets. Different ways to approach. Loved the giant space station and dreadnought expansions.

Defense Grid 1 and 2 are my favorite tower defense games by a mile. Especially the original game. Good DLC.

World in Conflict tells a cool alternate reality story, has nice graphics, and plays in an interesting way.

I have Grey Goo but I haven't played it much. It reminds me of StarCraft.

Planetary Annihilation. Plays something like Total Annihilation but with mini-planets and colorful cartoony graphics. meh

I got Supreme Commander for the X360 -although I knew I shouldn't but it required a hefty computer at the time- when it was launched and while I missed the zoom, massive battles and larger units limit of the PC version, it was a game that got me hooked because of my love for Total Annihilation and how similar both games are, although I missed the commander of Total Annihilation. There is a commander in Supreme Commander, but I always thought it was like some kind of silent god in Total Annihilation, and it is more like a talkative human inside a machine in Supreme Commander.

Also have Defence Grid 1 (X360) and 2 (Xbox One), but got Defence Grid 2 again to play it a higher resolution -looked blurry to me- and at a better framerate. The game ran choppy in my eyes, that goes from both DG1 and DG2. Loved them too!!

If we're going for slightly older RTS games then people shouldn't forget to include some of my favorite RTS games.

Company of Heroes 1 and 2. Features squad based "units" and control of resource points versus resource harvesting. CoH 2 is still alive in eSports, albeit far less so than SC2.

Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War. COH but in the Warhammer 40k universe.

Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War 2. Removes the basebuilding and focuses on squad tactics while adding an RPG element.

I've spent way too much time in those games. I can't wait for Warhammer 40k: DOW3.

Going much older, Age of Empires series (I really wish Age of Empires online hadn't ceased operations) and Age of Mythology. Rise of Nations. There was a really good one that I can't remember the name of where you created your army units by mixing the genes of 2 different animals. Empire Earth series. You can get re-mastered versions of some of these on Steam.

There's also a lot of 2D era RTS games that were really good that I can't remember the names of. One of which influenced Relic's decision to go with squad based units. It was really good but I can't for the life of me remember the name of it.

There were also a few space oriented series not named Homeworld that were pretty good. I can't remember the names of most of them. The only one that I can remember is Star Trek Armada.

It's a shame that RTS isn't as alive as it used to be WRT to development, but it's not surprising. It was always a niche genre, and when most PC developers and especially publishers moved to console development, RTS games were easy to cut since they don't translate to console controls well.

Thankfully we do still have some good companies delivering PC exclusive RTS games, albeit at a slower pace.

Regards,
SB

I got Rise of Nations in the summer sale today. Started the tutorial and couldn't stop playing til I completed the level. Gotta get used to the more complex style compared to good ol' Age of Empires, which was my forte.

But this is one of the best RTSs ever that I had never played. It came out at a time when my PC was broken and started to use my laptop, plus a year later I got the OG Xbox.

I too love Supreme Commander:FA and can't believe there hasn't been a 'proper' sequal to it. I was on the FAF website the other week and noticed someone had just released a new AI for FA. The LOUD AI, and it's very good compared with the Sorian AI, worth a look. I'm waiting for a get together with friends/ brothers to test it properly over a LAN, but it is good on Skirmish.

I had high hopes for PA, but is doesn't have the fun factor or the satisfaction of SC, even with the Titans add-on. I keep trying to persevere but I really need my brothers/ friends to do so also, and that is the harder task, mostly down to the utterly stupid spawn points for LAN team games if you are playing on a single planet

As for AotS:E, that is what we're playing at the moment, I quite like it but it all seems a bit contrived with the 'path ways' and the shroud that even hides the lay of the land.

You and @swaaye made me buy Supreme Commander Forged Alliance. I don't know how could I miss it. In fact the other day I was checking if Supreme Commander was in Steam, while waiting for the summer sale and I was doubtful to get Supreme Commander 1 or 2, or both, but I was unaware of the existence of Supreme Commander Forged Alliance.

As a total fan of the original TA, I feel ashamed that I could miss it. Plus the reviews are overwhelmingly positive in Steam, while "just" very positive for the rest of Supreme Commander games, which I enjoyed a lot, so if this one is even better... When AoE Definitive Edition comes out I am going to feel like my true self.

 

[Davros]

Gearbox just surprise released Homeworld Cataclysm after years of saying it was impossible. Since renamed to Homeworld Emergence because somehow Blizzard owns the copyright to the word Cataclysm even though Homeworld Cataclysm came out nine years earlier.

 

[swaaye]

You and @swaaye made me buy Supreme Commander Forged Alliance. I don't know how could I miss it. In fact the other day I was checking if Supreme Commander was in Steam, while waiting for the summer sale and I was doubtful to get Supreme Commander 1 or 2, or both, but I was unaware of the existence of Supreme Commander Forged Alliance.

As a total fan of the original TA, I feel ashamed that I could miss it. Plus the reviews are overwhelmingly positive in Steam, while "just" very positive for the rest of Supreme Commander games, which I enjoyed a lot, so if this one is even better... When AoE Definitive Edition comes out I am going to feel like my true self.

I've beaten the Forged Alliance campaign many times. You might want to look up the Enhanced Campaign AI mod that fixes up some bugs with the campaign. I've beaten that a few times too. lol
http://www.moddb.com/mods/forged-alliance-enhanced-campaign-ai

SupCom 2 is a very simplified form of the older games but the campaign is still fairly entertaining. It might remind you more of TA because of its simplified economy.

I wouldn't bother with the original SupCom release aside from a little historical perspective. The game is buggier, unrefined, takes forever because of balance issues, etc.

 

[Cyan]

I've beaten the Forged Alliance campaign many times. You might want to look up the Enhanced Campaign AI mod that fixes up some bugs with the campaign. I've beaten that a few times too. lol
http://www.moddb.com/mods/forged-alliance-enhanced-campaign-ai

SupCom 2 is a very simplified form of the older games but the campaign is still fairly entertaining. It might remind you more of TA because of its simplified economy.

I wouldn't bother with the original SupCom release aside from a little historical perspective. The game is buggier, unrefined, takes forever because of balance issues, etc.

thanks!! Downloaded that one, it is non intrusive and managed to play a mission of the campaign with it. I also downloaded Loud AI. Then Sorian AI.

Problem is that I played very little. LOUD AI sounds good, although it modifies many files and I ended up messing things a little, so I had to redownload the entire game. Hopefully I am going to play the game a little more tonight, after installing Enhanced Campaign AI and Sorian AI.

 

[swaaye]

thanks!! Downloaded that one, it is non intrusive and managed to play a mission of the campaign with it. I also downloaded Loud AI. Then Sorian AI.

Problem is that I played very little. LOUD AI sounds good, although it modifies many files and I ended up messing things a little, so I had to redownload the entire game. Hopefully I am going to play the game a little more tonight, after installing Enhanced Campaign AI and Sorian AI.

Enhanced Campaign AI includes Sorian AI. Still, the campaign is mostly a scripted ordeal so Sorian AI doesn't really affect much of it.

Yeah LOUD plays very interestingly but it changes so much. Incompatible with regular mods and maps. But it is definitely the most interesting AI. They reworked just about everything possible without source code to achieve it. The Forged Alliance Forever project can't even integrate it into their client because it changes too many game files. And that's unfortunate because internet multiplayer connectivity is a pain with the regular game interface.

 

[Cyan]

Enhanced Campaign AI includes Sorian AI. Still, the campaign is mostly a scripted ordeal so Sorian AI doesn't really affect much of it.

Yeah LOUD plays very interestingly but it changes so much. Incompatible with regular mods and maps. But it is definitely the most interesting AI. They reworked just about everything possible without source code to achieve it. The Forged Alliance Forever project can't even integrate it into their client because it changes too many game files. And that's unfortunate because internet multiplayer connectivity is a pain with the regular game interface.

That's excellent, because the installation is pretty straightforward. any tips on Sorian? Its strengths and weaknesses?

 

[swaaye]

That's excellent, because the installation is pretty straightforward. any tips on Sorian? Its strengths and weaknesses?

I just recommend that you know exactly how to play the game before you try a skirmish against Sorian AI. Know how to manage the economy and how to defend against everything.

Beat the campaign and you will be good to go. Though you never have to worry about getting nuked in the campaign. Only some NPCs get nuked. Sorian AI will try to nuke you to oblivion if you leave nukes enabled. Big fun nuke salvos. Heh

Let me know how things go. Maybe we could do a FAF game vs the AI sometime.