Rechecking Beyond3D pixel counters
- Thread starter 365
- Start date
After entering the 'next-gen' (which is not that next gen anymore) a few months ago, and playing a few games... and after checking Alstrong's sticky thread with resolutions and AA settings... i firmly believe that my (and everyone's) TV plays a much bigger part into the final IQ than most people seem to believe.
I thought one game was running with insane amounts of AA - turns out it was low res and upscaled.
I thought one other game was running at 1080p - turns out it was low res with tiny amounts of AA.
I thought another game had no AA - turns out it does.
So i just stopped bothering. Much easier.
I thought one game was running with insane amounts of AA - turns out it was low res and upscaled.
I thought one other game was running at 1080p - turns out it was low res with tiny amounts of AA.
I thought another game had no AA - turns out it does.
So i just stopped bothering. Much easier.
You should write "Zen and the Art of Console Gaming" l-b
PS3 version? Xbox version has MSAAx4 according to your list.
than why List of Rendering Resolutions says: Virtua Fighter 5 (demo) = 1024x1024 (4xAA)
?
360 version. same for SFIV
I can see jugged edges only very very close.. The game is beautiful with no breaches.
BGs in full 3D. tha game flying through it at the start
Mize
please explain. I noticed that 576p in PS3 settings really makes image quality a little bit better. Maybe because 576 is closer to divisible divisible native resolution. But there are just not enough pixels to play comfortably and became blurry like my vision is getting worse.
365:
The "good AA" you posted looks blurred. I was giving you a way to make your TV blur HS a bit.
You can tell HS is AA'd from the color gradations at the boundary. Compare to your Bayonetta screens and you'll see single pixel abrupt color changes that you don't see on your HS screens.
Now I'll grant you the HS AA doesn't minimize jaggies as much as you'll see in some games, but I believe DeanoC pointed out that's not from lack of AA but lack of linear blending in the colorspace. Indeed you see some oddity with colors at those AA'd edges.
The "good AA" you posted looks blurred. I was giving you a way to make your TV blur HS a bit.
You can tell HS is AA'd from the color gradations at the boundary. Compare to your Bayonetta screens and you'll see single pixel abrupt color changes that you don't see on your HS screens.
Now I'll grant you the HS AA doesn't minimize jaggies as much as you'll see in some games, but I believe DeanoC pointed out that's not from lack of AA but lack of linear blending in the colorspace. Indeed you see some oddity with colors at those AA'd edges.
Since you were talking about Heavenly Sword, I figured you were talking about the PS3 version. You also only identified Bayonetta as being 360 in your post. Feel free to be clearer next time.
It is MSAA in HS! It's just not resolving to the typical results.
Consider a conventional 2xAA on a white/black edge. White is (255,255,255) in RGB space. Black is (0,0,0). 2xMSAA would average the two producing mid-grey (128,128,128), which you'd see. In the case of HS, the intensity extends beyond standard (255,255,255) intensity. Thus if you have a super-bright white triangle from a sunlit surface, with a sample of equivalent intensity RGB (1024,1024,1024) (HS doesn't represent colours in terms of RGB components), and a second black sample of (0,0,0), the MSAA average will be equivalent to (512,512,512) which is beyond the dynamic range of RGB, resulting in a white average.
What you seem to be wanting is a more subjective analysis of AA levels. In an HDR game where MSAA cannot resolve higher intensities below white, you will get the equivalent of zero AA on some edges. However, where the dynamic contrast isn't beyond the resolving step, you'll get the full MSAA interpolation. How exactly could you qualify that in a technical analysis though? "This game is 4xMSAA, but sometimes looks 0xAA"? If you follow that route, you'd also have to say of other games, "this game has no AA, but looks like maybe 2xAA, even 4xAA in places." That's non-technical!
So here we just stick to the facts about the engine. Current hardware and engines tend to have AA faults with HDR that means you don't always get the full benefit of the MSAA steps even though it's implemented. C'est la vie!
ok. heres SF4 for PS3 (yes sometimes I have two versions of one game)
Yes it's much more jugged than 360 version since there's noAA but still this one looks much better than HS 4xAA does
the same strange (I can even say 'terrible') AA I can see in Heavy Rain and GoWIII E3 2009 Demo.
Yes it's much more jugged than 360 version since there's noAA but still this one looks much better than HS 4xAA does
the same strange (I can even say 'terrible') AA I can see in Heavy Rain and GoWIII E3 2009 Demo.
I'm not sure where you're going with this. The pixel-counters are working from high-quality direct grabs. Their measurements are accurate (pending correction from other pixel counters!). Several people have attempted to explain in different ways why you can't tell a game's AA level, like HS, just from looking at it. There's nothing wrong with questioning people, but I'd have thought by now you'd see where you were going wrong?
yes. I recognized a lot today.
there are "AAs". Sometimes even so strong AA level as 4x can spoil image even worse than absence of AA does.
and I can't get so much fun in some games because of it. Yes I like graphics that do not hurt my eyes.
as for these examples in game VF5 4xAA > SF4 2xAA > Bayonetta noAA > SF4 noAA > HS 4xAA > GoWIII E3 Demo (??AA)
I will check the list with more circumspection next time.
// I'm sorry for my English.
there are "AAs". Sometimes even so strong AA level as 4x can spoil image even worse than absence of AA does.
and I can't get so much fun in some games because of it. Yes I like graphics that do not hurt my eyes.
as for these examples in game VF5 4xAA > SF4 2xAA > Bayonetta noAA > SF4 noAA > HS 4xAA > GoWIII E3 Demo (??AA)
I will check the list with more circumspection next time.
// I'm sorry for my English.
grandmaster
Veteran
And Bayonetta has no AA!
Uh...
365, I would like to be wrong, but under your insistence I seem to see some kind of "PS3 hate" (because of sentences such as "the same strange (I can even say 'terrible') AA I can see in Heavy Rain and GoWIII E3 2009 Demo", and the overall spirit of your words)... You're almost saying that an anti-aliased edge looks worse ("sharper") than an aliased one, and that makes no sense.
I hope you understand, now (if the problem is that you don't understand, not that you don't want to accept facts).
365, I would like to be wrong, but under your insistence I seem to see some kind of "PS3 hate" (because of sentences such as "the same strange (I can even say 'terrible') AA I can see in Heavy Rain and GoWIII E3 2009 Demo", and the overall spirit of your words)... You're almost saying that an anti-aliased edge looks worse ("sharper") than an aliased one, and that makes no sense.
I hope you understand, now (if the problem is that you don't understand, not that you don't want to accept facts).