Quake4: Nvidia6800 vs ATI Xenon

[pipo]

Edit - nevermind. Let the kids go on.

 

[Pete]

The article implies the Xb360 ran the game at 720p (12x7), while it states the "6800" (Ultra?) ran it at 10x7 with "most" of the FX on. So, not quite Granny to Red Delicious. And Carmack's had a bit of a head start on PC development.

 

[ims]

Look at Gears of War, only 10,000 polygons for character model and not very impressive environments. More I look, more I think Xbox360 not so good at polygons.

This was a pretty good thread until you started the flamebait and ruined it.

 

[London Geezer]

Textures of GOW are good and bad. Normal mapping is very very nice, but simple textures are sometimes very low resolution. Maybe DVD drive not big enough.

Maybe if people stopped replying to him way before he came up with that ridiculous statement, the thread wouldn't be where it is now.

 

[HappyBread]

What reasons do you have for saying this?



Dont forget, Gears of War is only 30fps. Only 60fps confirmed are DOA4 and Call of Duty 2.

Perfect Dark Zero is 30FPS as well, EGM-:

The latest version we tried got a bit choppy at times, but Rare is promising that the final game will run at 30 frames per second (about as smoothly as Halo 2, but not the blazing speed we'd expect of a next-generation title).

 

[Phil]

Is it me, or do Japanese developers seem to be more dedicated to framerate than western developers? It seems to be that generally, most Japanese games go for that 60 fps while western developers generally for the extra eye candy and 30 fps.

 

[London Geezer]

Is it me, or do Japanese developers seem to be more dedicated to framerate than western developers? It seems to be that generally, most Japanese games go for that 60 fps while western developers generally for the extra eye candy and 30 fps.

Guess it comes down to actually making a "game" to be played, compared to making a game to look at, and sell as many copies as possible because of the way it looks and not the way it plays. Having said that, some games just don't need 60fps so that's another issue.

 

[pipo]

Having said that, some games just don't need 60fps so that's another issue.

Exactly. There are lots of games where I rather have more eye candy and 30 FPS. Things as motion blur ... err ... blur the line even more.

There are people here who don't seem to understand that FPS vs look can be a design issue.

 

[Phil]

Guess it comes down to actually making a "game" to be played, compared to making a game to look at, and sell as many copies as possible because of the way it looks and not the way it plays.

Hmm.... I really think many western devs should reset their priorities.

Team Ninja:
Dead or Alive 3 = 60 fps (beat'em up),
Dead or Alive 4 = 60 fps (beat'em up), ,
Ninja Gaiden = 60 fps (action?).

Sega:
SegaGT = 60 fps (? not sure though) (racing),
PDO = 60 fps (rail-shooter),

Namco:
Ridge Racer 5 = 60 fps (racer)
Ridge Racer 6 = 60 fps (racer)

Konami:
Metal Gear Solid 2 = 60 fps (action-adventure)
ZOE 1 / 2 = 60 fps (Mech)

Polyphony:
Gran Turismo 3, 4 = 60 fps

On the contrary, you have quite a few western developers like Epic, Bungie that make games that would benefit from a faster framerate (more so than many of the games I listed above) - what do they do? Aim for 30 fps.

Of course they're also many slower games coming from Japan that only feature 30 fps (Final Fantasy, Silent Hill etc), yet the point is; I just know way less western games that go for 60 fps. Naughty Dog, Free Radical (TimeSplitters), just seem like a few that do...

Just imagine playing a fast paced first person shooter like Quake at 30 fps. Bloddy disgusting.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Is it me, or do Japanese developers seem to be more dedicated to framerate than western developers? It seems to be that generally, most Japanese games go for that 60 fps while western developers generally for the extra eye candy and 30 fps.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the japanese are said to get more easily motion sickness in games, 30fps must make it only worse.

 

[Acert93]

edit: dont want to throw this too far off topic.

Doom 3 was running at 60fps on my 6800GT well over 720p res. too. It must have something to do with the texture memory bandwidth?

Did anyone read my post?

And where are you getting it is the texture memory bandwidth?! Are we just randomly picking ideas out of the air seeing if they will stick? There are very logical reasons why there is some issues, I don't get why certain people think it has to be something specific outside of what Carmak has already stated (i.e. the difficulties of an in-order multi-core CPU environment).

 

[Acert93]

Maybe if people stopped replying to him way before he came up with that ridiculous statement, the thread wouldn't be where it is now.

I should have read the whole thread before replying agian...

 

[expletive]

In the last Gamespot GoW interview from TGS they claim it was running mostly at 30fps and the Epic expects to more than double the performance by the time it ships. To me, that says they are shooting for, and expect to hit, 60fps. Just an FYI...

"The demo version was running reasonably well, with a frame rate hovering at and occasionally below the 30 mark. But the game is purportedly running on only one of the Xbox 360 CPU's three cores, and Epic claims it should at least double that performance number by the time emergence day rolls around, sometime next year. "

J

 

[Lysander]

No, as I said gow will not work on 60fps; rein said that if they will hit 60 they will just add more polys and text (but this could also be pr trick as zidane noted). Anyway I think kameo works at 60fps.
But the problem of 22.4gig/s of memory BW in X2 could be dangerous; what function edram in X2gpu has to prevent bottleneck in comparision with geforce, which is using vram as frame buffer?
I remeber that ati guy said gpu will not use UM to much.

 

[expletive]

No, as I said gow will not work on 60fps; rein said that if they will hit 60 they will just add more polys and text (but this could also be pr trick as zidane noted). .

So youre saying that they will keep adding stuff until they can bring it down to 30fps? In the video review he specifically mentions that they intend on providing a 'great framerate'. What that means is up for interpretation but they seem focused on it. Can you link to his comments regarding 'adding stuff until we hit 30fps'? (if thats what you meant)

Thanks.

J

 

[Lysander]

I am not sure, I think the game frames will fluctuate based upon graphic demand of each frame, in any case it will not go under 30 even at most complex scenes.
oh, link, sorry it was on the site which crashed, if the site wil come back, I will post it

 

[Acert93]

So youre saying that they will keep adding stuff until they can bring it down to 30fps? In the video review he specifically mentions that they intend on providing a 'great framerate'. What that means is up for interpretation but they seem focused on it. Can you link to his comments regarding 'adding stuff until we hit 30fps'? (if thats what you meant)

In the Xboxyde interview Rein said their goal was 30fps. If they were at 60fps they would add more eye candy and such.

 

[seismologist]

Did anyone read my post?

And where are you getting it is the texture memory bandwidth?! Are we just randomly picking ideas out of the air seeing if they will stick? There are very logical reasons why there is some issues, I don't get why certain people think it has to be something specific outside of what Carmak has already stated (i.e. the difficulties of an in-order multi-core CPU environment).

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/doom3cpu_08020430812/3453.png

I read your post but it's wrong. Doom 3 isn't CPU intensive. More than likely the differece between PC and Xbox 360 is related to the memory difference. Or shared memory bandwidth. The recommended system specs for Doom 3 is 1gb system memory.

Oh whoops, I forgot that Xenon was in-order. I guess 3.2ghz compined with in order processing, the performance might drop off pretty quickly.

 

[expletive]

In the Xboxyde interview Rein said their goal was 30fps. If they were at 60fps they would add more eye candy and such.

Ok, interesting approach by Epic. Cant decide if i agree with it. It should give them an edge in the 'screenshot wars' at least.

J

 

[expletive]

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/doom3cpu_08020430812/3453.png

I read your post but it's wrong. Doom 3 isn't CPU intensive. More than likely the differece between PC and Xbox 360 is related to the memory difference. Or shared memory bandwidth. The recommended system specs for Doom 3 is 1gb system memory.

Keep in mind with a PC you have to assume tons more overhead memory usage so i dont think theres a 1:1 comparison in memory.

Maybe its because they were running on powermacs and x800s until about 2 months ago?

J