PowerVR
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NO.
How about they built one chip but are selling in two markets?
What kind of market penetration has Renesas lately in terms of smartphones/tablets? Does anyone know for sure yet what Apple is planning for this year's SoCs? I don't think so. If you'd have a chance to see Rogue in a smartphone/tablet you'd expect to see it first in an i-device or from someone like Renesas?
Probably very little, but it wouldn't hurt to try. Some Japanese OEMs could be using it though. Unlikely that the englidh language press will pick it up.
The only smartphone I recall that had the current Renesas SoC with a 543MP2 was a quite ugly Kyocera smartphone which completely underdelivered probably due to a crappy Android implementation. Wait found it: http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare.jsp?D1=Kyocera+HONEY+BEE+101K&D2=Apple+iPhone+4S&cols=2
....and no I don't think its GPU is clocked by 60% lower than the 200MHz MP2 in the iPhone4S. Renesas had announced that MP2 platform eons before anyone else and despite that Apple shipped long before them. No guarantee of course for anything, but it's much more likelier that history will up to a point repeat itself.
....and no I don't think its GPU is clocked by 60% lower than the 200MHz MP2 in the iPhone4S. Renesas had announced that MP2 platform eons before anyone else and despite that Apple shipped long before them. No guarantee of course for anything, but it's much more likelier that history will up to a point repeat itself.
OT: ironic that their stock dropped to an insane low despite: http://www.imgtec.com/News/Release/index.asp?NewsID=750
Welcome to IMG, where bad news causes the share price to drop, good news causes the share price to drop and no news causes the share price to drop.
SP has fallen badly ever since they announced that licensing revenue this half of their financial year would be way down on expectation. Reason given was delays in licensing completion due to restructuring by many partners citing japanese companies and TI amongst them.
The reason given has been widely panned as nonsense. TI has quit the mobile soc business. so no revenue from Omap6 licensing (which was committed to series 6) Whatever TI might or might not license in the future for their embedded market will have nothing to do with license negotiations prior to their mobile soc exit, so its not delays in license closure, its termination of those licenses.
Similar issues with Fujitsu, who recently sold their soc business (I think to panasonic).
Renesas doesn't seem to sell much of anything in mobile soc. Its looking like they might exit mobile soc and concentrate on in-car and embedded/industrial.
Don't know what's going on with LG, apparently they have an inhouse smartphone soc in the works. Similar with Hisilicon (Huawei). They have a rogue license.
With many companies heading towards industrial/embedded, the suggestion is that this market is not at the leading edge in terms of graphics/video performance, and certainly does not have the 12 month cycle time of phones/tablets, which is a driver into licensing new multimedia IP.
The termination of TI, the lack of success of Renesas, and limited showing of others, is giving Qualcomm a totally all-you-can-eat buffet in the mobile soc market, outside of Apple. Even Samsung seems to be not too keep on their own soc (which has IMG graphics) and is favouring qualcomm in the S4. Only bright spot currently is mediatek, which is on a roll, and is likely to see a similar major ramp up in tablet socs this year, as it did with smartphone socs last year.
And I havn't even mentioned the uncertainty over whether MIPS is going to gain any traction now that its owned by IMG, or is it just going to be another drain on resources.
IMG's financial statement for the full year is out in less than a week, and the sense of trepidation it is causing is also reflected in the SP.
The reason given has been widely panned as nonsense. TI has quit the mobile soc business. so no revenue from Omap6 licensing (which was committed to series 6) Whatever TI might or might not license in the future for their embedded market will have nothing to do with license negotiations prior to their mobile soc exit, so its not delays in license closure, its termination of those licenses.
Similar issues with Fujitsu, who recently sold their soc business (I think to panasonic).
Renesas doesn't seem to sell much of anything in mobile soc. Its looking like they might exit mobile soc and concentrate on in-car and embedded/industrial.
Don't know what's going on with LG, apparently they have an inhouse smartphone soc in the works. Similar with Hisilicon (Huawei). They have a rogue license.
With many companies heading towards industrial/embedded, the suggestion is that this market is not at the leading edge in terms of graphics/video performance, and certainly does not have the 12 month cycle time of phones/tablets, which is a driver into licensing new multimedia IP.
The termination of TI, the lack of success of Renesas, and limited showing of others, is giving Qualcomm a totally all-you-can-eat buffet in the mobile soc market, outside of Apple. Even Samsung seems to be not too keep on their own soc (which has IMG graphics) and is favouring qualcomm in the S4. Only bright spot currently is mediatek, which is on a roll, and is likely to see a similar major ramp up in tablet socs this year, as it did with smartphone socs last year.
And I havn't even mentioned the uncertainty over whether MIPS is going to gain any traction now that its owned by IMG, or is it just going to be another drain on resources.
IMG's financial statement for the full year is out in less than a week, and the sense of trepidation it is causing is also reflected in the SP.
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Samsung doesn't seem to be able to produce any significant quantity of 5410 SoCs for whatever reason; I just read today that there's going to be a south korean S4 variant also with a S800 integrated.
As for the rest of the former post it's damn hard to find anything else to disagree
As for the rest of the former post it's damn hard to find anything else to disagree
In addition to all of the license dropping from SoC makers exiting the mobile market I do wonder how much the MIPS acquisition is hurting things. I heard some on the board and shareholders feel that IMG overpaid for it.
I'd also count Allwinner, who switched from Mali to PowerVR (and a prefty hefty GPU given the CPUs) and has been gaining a ton of volume in China. Ingenic switched from Vivante to PowerVR as well, but I don't think they're nearly as prolific these days. Intel getting any substantial volume at all would be another big help (although not counting BayTrail-T of course). I could see them turning things around somewhat in 2H 2013/2014.
tangey said:
I'd also count Allwinner, who switched from Mali to PowerVR (and a prefty hefty GPU given the CPUs) and has been gaining a ton of volume in China. Ingenic switched from Vivante to PowerVR as well, but I don't think they're nearly as prolific these days. Intel getting any substantial volume at all would be another big help (although not counting BayTrail-T of course). I could see them turning things around somewhat in 2H 2013/2014.
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MIPS could become a thorn in IMG's side if they shouldn't be able to reach their own expectations for N timeframe.
Those are all low margin though due to the nature of the markets they're addressing. As much as IMG might not like to admit it, their dependency on Apple is quite high. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if stocks recover bit by bit after the next i-bunch of devices launch. It might be a necessary "evil", but it's one of the reasons why IMG needs to secure other markets too in order to grow in the future.
Does the margin on the SoC itself really make a difference? Put another way, does Allwinner really pay substantially less for licensing an SGX543MP2 than Apple would?
Getting back in with Samsung could also be a big win for them if Samsung decides to use Exynos w/SGX in anything more than a pittance of Galaxy S4s.
Getting back in with Samsung could also be a big win for them if Samsung decides to use Exynos w/SGX in anything more than a pittance of Galaxy S4s.
My understanding is, in general, royalty rates are based on the type of IP being licensed, the % area of the soc that the IP comprises, and the price of the soc.
Specifically, there are other factors, such as how many different IP blocks are taken, and of course there are various volume step downs, i.e. first million at such a rate, next x at such a rate etc.
I would imagine apple have a highly individualised royalty model.
Considering that Allwinner licensed it a LOT later than Apple probably did, it's most likely cheaper. Of course has tangey above a point considering Apple and their usual mega-volumes, but I have a hard time imagining that Apple can drop the price as much.
The average royalty is give or take around 30 cents; new IP might reach up to $1, older stuff below 30 cents.
If they can get their own 5410 production into pace probably yes; in any case for the time being it sounds more like an exception.
ltcommander.data
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Apple and Intel being large shareholders of Imagination is supposed to prevent un-expected buyouts, but I wonder whether it also gives them extra say in design direction, early availability, and royalty discounts compared to just being a volume purchaser?
I do think apple has an input into the r&d product direction, not because they are a shareholder, but because they are contributing around half of all income from the technology division. When you have as big a customer as that, you certainly want to be r&d -ing products that they require in the future.
For the last few years now, apple have been at the leading envelope of graphics performance in their socs. You could almost say the exact opposite for intel. Be interesting to see what they put into merrifield.
Our posts for the past few pages are hardly S6 related *shrugs*.... by the way I did some digging for chinese OEM/white box stuff and it's hard to not see how damn successful Mediatek truly is especially the 6589. I'm even intrigued to get one considering how dirt cheap they are; found one with a 5" screen, Android 4.2.1, 1080p resolution, 13MP camera for an unbelievable low price. If it'll last at least a year it's still good enough.
So sorry tangey boo and I don't care what Intel will have in Merrifield, I'm much more interested in Mediatek's first SoCs containing Rogue.
So sorry tangey boo and I don't care what Intel will have in Merrifield, I'm much more interested in Mediatek's first SoCs containing Rogue.
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