Possible technology related to Slipspace engine

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Ronaldo8, Jul 7, 2020.

  1. Ronaldo8

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    Donald R smith is a technical art director at Xbox studios. Donald R Smith is also the inventor of an interesting method of generating images with high fidelity in terms of resolution and texture to be used in an upcoming game engine with a fractional compute/memory cost. The patent in question is titled :Indexed Value Blending for use in image rendering (https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/4d/c4/0e/16a8dcab37e45f/US20200074723A1.pdf).

    It is reminiscent of EPIC's method for resource economy when it comes to geometry. Could this be foreshadowing the slipspace engine? (It always bothered me as to why 343i would devote so much time/money to build their own game engine when they could easily use UE4/5 like all the other XGS studios.)
     
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  2. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    Slipspace is specifically for halo, and that’s going to be much more effective than using something like unreal.

    secondly, patents are patents. Just because the patents exists, don’t mean they will be used.
     
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  3. scently

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    Any reason why you think this patent or its inventor has something to do with the Slipspace engine in particular? Can't see any link to 343.
     
  4. BRiT

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    It's layed out in the very first two sentences and assumed the user knows 343 is linked to Xbox Games Studios.

     
  5. scently

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    I get that the inventor is a Technical Art Director at an XGS but how do you know that the said XGS in question is 343 and not some other studio like Ninja Theory for example.
     
  6. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
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    Looks like his position works with all Microsoft Game Studios.

    upload_2020-7-7_15-49-2.png
     
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  7. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    not many engines can just 'bolt' new technologies on so easily. So I mean, if you had to bet which engine could take it on, it would be this one ... knowing that it was designed for XSX. I don't know if Forza team is overhauling. And the unreal teams are moving to 5.

    that being said though, not sure.

    neat, but not sure.
     
  8. Ronaldo8

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    343i is the only non-racing XGS studio developing its own engine. All the others are on unreal or unity.
     
  9. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    It can be sent to both unity and unreal as well to be integrated into their engines. We’ve seen MS backport technologies back to the main branch
     
  10. Ronaldo8

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    Can't see EPIC using licensed tech from MS. Not their style.
     
  11. scently

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    They did integrate LPV from Lionhead's work developing Fable Legend so its not unheard of but yeah, could very well be for Slipspace but I wouldn't rule out integration into Unreal. I'd imagine that most XGS using UE modify it a fair bit to suit their needs so this could very well be a technique developed at XGS to be integrated into engines for use in XGS engines/games.
     
  12. Ronaldo8

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    Lionhead devs solved lighting issues in the UE4 probono. The poor souls got thrown to the curb a few months later.
     
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  13. Frenetic Pony

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    Chroma subsampling isn't new and that MS patented a version at all is a dick move.

    Also it just sounds like the usual Graphics programmer mistake of underestimating how much impact color has on image quality. Programmers love looking at metrics, and since color is a low bit metric that can be subsampled a bit compared to luma over a 2d domain, love to crunch it down because according to metrics it doesn't seem that important. But when actually looking at the final image it becomes a lot more obvious what's happened.

    One of my favorite examples of engineers obsessing with Luma over Chroma is HDR and UHD mastered movies. Engineers for OETF curves and Codecs and standards obsess over HDR's expanded Luma range. People start watching HDR mastered movies and the thing most reviewers comment on as improved isn't the range of lighting but the improved color range of DCI-P3, something the engineers barely noticed or thought about, something that's utterly discounted in the original HDR OETF curve paper as unimportant in a single sentence.

    Oops.
     
    #13 Frenetic Pony, Jul 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
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  14. mpg1

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    Doesn't Destiny basically use the Halo engine? Bungie would conceivably use an new version would they not? Maybe they share the benefits?
     
  15. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    No. By hue should have had to rebuild from scratch. All that halo code would have been owned by MS.

    slipspace is an entirely new engine that they started after their struggle moving the engine forward with H5
     
  16. Ronaldo8

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    This is definitely not chroma subsampling (the reduction of colour information in favor of luminescence) though as IVB involves the encoding of any material properties (colour, texture, lighting values. etc) using a blending factor. This enables the "zooming" of a low resolution image into a higher one with high fidelity without the need of holding in memory a large corresponding texture map. So....Oops
     
    #16 Ronaldo8, Jul 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
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  17. Proelite

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    This sounds like SFS related?
     
  18. Ronaldo8

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    Nah.. Don't think this have anything to do with XSX architecture. It's a platform agnostic method for a game engine that is expected to be shipped on a plethora of machines (PC).
     
  19. arhra

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    IIRC, Bungie were granted a license to continue using the engine after splitting with MS. There are tech presentations describing the evolution of Destiny's codebase from what it started (branched from Halo midway through the development of Reach) up to the version that shipped in Destiny.

    That wouldn't cover any changes that 343 made for H4/5 though, and definitely not Slipspace.
     
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  20. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    wow okay thanks, that makes sense considering how fast they were able to turn around Destiny.
    Ouch, looks like that bit them in the butt as it bit 343i.

    this explains a lot why Destiny 2 continues to suffer with content and 343i decided to move on.
     
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