"Phase Hydra" Blu Ray campaign (planting seeds)

[RobertR1]

Thanks to awilliams (alex):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10208851&&#post10208851

"-- The BDA has formally kicked off a new PR campaign called "Phase Hydra"....its purpose is to seed "high profile" forums with Blu-ray advocates and target bloggers to promote Blu-ray to get the word out to the world...the campaign will also focus on "smaller, independent studio issues"..."

sad......

The rest of his post has some good info for different profiles and such regarding ROM and recordable media.

 

[Ty]

Just swell. Instead of concentrating on the technical merits and improving the supply side, they need to turn to propaganda. What a shame.

 

[Capeta]

So now they've made it "official"...nice.

 

[Arwin]

Just swell. Instead of concentrating on the technical merits and improving the supply side, they need to turn to propaganda. What a shame.

Oh I'm sure all the technicians dropped their work and instead became expensive propaganda bloggers.

 

[slider]

Even if it wasn't occuring/official a lot of people would still suspect it was happening on both sides of the line.

 

[Graham]

So they are promoting their product by casting doubt on anyone who praises it?

 

[patsu]

Thanks to awilliams (alex):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10211194#post10211194

"-- The BDA has formally kicked off a new PR campaign called "Phase Hydra"....its purpose is to seed "high profile" forums with Blu-ray advocates and target bloggers to promote Blu-ray to get the word out to the world...the campaign will also focus on "smaller, independent studio issues"..."

sad......

The rest of his post has some good info for different profiles and such regarding ROM and recordable media.

The link points to a JavaOne conference post. Is the original post deleted ? What was HD-DVD's original PR campaign against Blu-ray and AVC called ?

It is not a "sad thing" as long as they focus on their values and communicate in the proper way. It was (will be ?) a sad thing when people, including the media, twisted facts and bad mouthed their competitions without due research/respect. A lot of that happened during mid- to late- 2006.

 

[RobertR1]

The link points to a JavaOne conference post. Is the original post deleted ? What was HD-DVD's original PR campaign against Blu-ray and AVC called ?

It is not a "sad thing" as long as they focus on their values and communicate in the proper way. It was (will be ?) a sad thing when people, including the media, twisted facts and bad mouthed their competitions without due research/respect. A lot of that happened during mid- to late- 2006.

My bad:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10208851&&#post10208851

 

[Zaphod]

My bad: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10208851&&#post10208851

Might be apropos to link up their separate thread on the issue as well.

 

[patsu]

Read through the threads. Looks like Internet will take some time to mature.

People are mixing up viral marketing and FUD. Viral marketing is neutral, like traditional marketing. It doesn't have to be bad. In fact, all the bad claims against viral marketing (e.g., fake testimonials) has been done in traditional marketing since day one (The latter just lacks the social network effect and usually some "offbeat" angle).

Nonetheless, "The Blair Witch Project" and Gmail invitation are good and fun examples.

Sony's "All I want for Christmas is a PSP" is a particularly bad attempt (by people who IMHO don't understand viral marketing -- because it looks fake from the get-go).

Personally I think Amir's many AVS posts against Blu-ray and AVC is another bad one (effective ! but misleading). It is viral because some AVS forum people tend to link them in other fora.

The oldest trick is Microsoft's "You can keep it" Ferrari laptop for promoting Vista. The problem is not so much MS -- because many curry favor in one way or another -- but the bloggers' integrity and maturity.

If it continues unabated, I think some authority will step in eventually. I'm waiting for things to blow up in someone's publishing department



As for claiming that recent Blu-ray advocates are paid shills (in the AVSforum thread)... I think most are just fans. They are likely just happy to come out from a bad launch and negative PR assault from the other side.

I used to view certain posters as likely viral marketers, but after a long enough interaction, the doubt went away. Most are just people with different views. We should have a big heart and stomach for people who express their love for Blu-ray or HD-DVD.

 

[Zaphod]

People are mixing up viral marketing and FUD. Viral marketing is neutral, like traditional marketing.

We need new words. The 'viral' effect in itself is fine, because of the nature of the proposition. You put something out there and let the virus do it's work. What we're seeing now on the net is something different and more nefarious. Someone here suggested 'stealth marketing', and I'd add 'infiltration marketing'. This kind is deceitful, unethical, and a breach of trust with the consumer.

I don't know about the US, but in Europe these approaches tend to be illegal due to requirements that marketing explicitly identify itself as such. You flip past ads in the paper and ignore testimonials on home shopping TV because you know that they're ads, and that's fine by me.

 

[RobertR1]

Read through the threads. Looks like Internet will take some time to mature.

People are mixing up viral marketing and FUD. Viral marketing is neutral, like traditional marketing. It doesn't have to be bad. In fact, all the bad claims against viral marketing (e.g., fake testimonials) has been done in traditional marketing since day one (The latter just lacks the social network effect).

Nonetheless, "The Blair Witch Project" and Gmail invitation are good and fun examples.

Sony's "All I want for Christmas is a PSP" is a particularly bad attempt (by people who IMHO don't understand viral marketing -- because it looks fake from the get-go).

Personally I think Amir's many AVS posts against Blu-ray and AVC is another bad one (effective ! but misleading). It is viral because some AVS forum people tend to link them in other fora.

The oldest trick is Microsoft's "You can keep it" Ferrari laptop for promoting Vista. The problem is not so much MS -- because many curry favor in one way or another -- but the bloggers' integrity and maturity.

If it continues unabated, I think some authority will step in eventually. I'm waiting for things to blow up in someone's publishing department



As for claiming that recent Blu-ray advocates are paid shills (in the AVSforum thread)... I think most are just fans. They are likely just happy to come out from a bad launch and negative PR assault from the other side.

I used to view certain posters as likely viral marketers, but after a long enough interaction, the doubt went away. Most are just people with different views. We should have a big heart and stomach for people who express their love for Blu-ray or HD-DVD.

Planting shills to pose as regular users is the issue. If that's OK with you, then so be it but for me and many others, we're not big fans of deception.

Amir and other insiders declare their affiliation. That is VERY different that what is being discussed. I have no problem with people like Amir/Talk/Paidgeek/Ben but someone signed up or being recruited and told to keep their affiliation hidden while promoting the product and posing as just a regular user, yeah, I have a major issue with that.

 

[patsu]

I don't know about the US, but in Europe these approaches tend to be illegal due to requirements that marketing explicitly identify itself as such. You flip past ads in the paper and ignore testimonials on home shopping TV because you know that they're ads, and that's fine by me.

It's the same in US, but the parties involved here are not really companies (e.g., bloggers, forum posters) and the content may not be marketing collaterals (e.g., personal opinion). The companies would have also disassociated themselves from the actual work too.

Planting shills to pose as regular users is the issue. If that's OK with you, then so be it but for me and many others, we're not big fans of deception.

I didn't say they are ok. I just said viral marketing is not necessarily bad. As a satisfied Blu-ray customer, I also mentioned that the recent Blu-ray supporting posts may be genuine. As for planting people in the forum, how is that different from Amir ? Even if he's a known MS employee, it does not make it ok to generate FUD and half-truths by leveraging on his position and knowledge. It's just a different (and equally bad/negative) strain of virus. Not all posters can tell when Amir is lying (which makes it more stealth and "dangerous"). Not to mention new posters may not know Amir works for MS.

Amir and other insiders declare their affiliation. That is VERY different that what is being discussed. I have no problem with people like Amir/Talk/Paidgeek/Ben but someone signed up or being recruited and told to keep their affiliation hidden while promoting the product and posing as just a regular user, yeah, I have a major issue with that.

All "Hydra" amounts to may be sponsored articles, building trusting relationships with bloggers and establishing more official presence on the net to "get the word" out. Many big companies are doing that. For a large consortium like BDA, I would say they are under-represented on the net today.

It's forum posters' (including -- potentially -- the original poster) individual interpretation that color the program. Why don't we see what "Hydra" is first before jumping the gun (again).

 

[Capeta]

I wonder if they rehired David Manning to lead the effort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Manning_(fictitious_writer)

 

[patsu]

It's an infamous example but the often overlooked truth in the original piece is:

The real question is why Sony had to conceive the counterfeit critic to begin with, given the world of movie junkets, where normal reporting standards don’t apply.

Reading the glowing newspaper-ad recommendations for even the lamest movie, you might wonder if those quoted critics are real. Unlike Manning, they are. Many are habitu鳠of the junket circuit, an all-expenses-paid gravy train where the studios give journalists free rooms and meals at posh hotels and the reporters return the favor with puffy celebrity profiles and enthusiastic review blurbs. Sometimes studio executives will suggest what kind of quotes they need, and even shape the reviews to suit the studio’s goals. If a studio wants its movie pegged as “This year’s ‘Alien’,†the reviewer delivers precisely that. No one complains, and bad movies end up with great quotes. The junket troops are a mostly anonymous crowd working for obscure outlets like Wireless Magazine and Inside Reel, which helps explain why nobody—even people within Sony and Revolution—noticed that Manning was a sham. “If he doesn’t exist, he should at least have given us a better quote,†Roth joked. The Manning fabrication broke even Hollywood’s lax rules. But the real scandal is what’s considered acceptable.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010609225327/www.msnbc.com/news/581770.asp?cp1=1

 

[Capeta]

The "overlooked truth" is now the model Phase Hydra is following. I guess the David Manning model is something they'd rather not follow now with Hydra since the court ordered them to pay $1.5 million to deceived consumers.

 

[patsu]

Do you have official details on "Hydra" ? If not, let's see what happens. We can't prove or disprove anything if nothing is done yet.

 

[Zaphod]

I don't really think the Manning example is equivalent to the kind of marketing we might be talking about here. Mind-numbingly stupid, yes, but still within the context of traditional marketing (which it is my prerogative to ignore). The same goes for so called 'journalists' on the junket train. I know that's the way it is. Natural skepticism is just healthy in avenues where you're expecting to be targeted by PR.

This, on the other hand, is more like I just figured out that my friend who use to recommend movies for me to buy only hang out with me because he's paid to get people to buy DVDs (I'm exaggerating, I know). It's trying to bypass my right to ignore marketing by penetrating an area in which it does not belong under false pretenses. Letting marketing sneak in to the areas of our lives in which we're not currently expecting it would turn us all into misanthropes.

I, for one, don't want that and would rather have marketing stay the fuck out of where it does not belong.

Not really directed against this particular campaign or Blu-Ray, but the words used to describe 'Hydra' send all the wrong signals, IMO.

 

[patsu]

I don't really think the Manning example is equivalent to the kind of marketing we might be talking about here. Mind-numbingly stupid, yes, but still within the context of traditional marketing (which it is my prerogative to ignore). The same goes for so called 'journalists' on the junket train. I know that's the way it is. Natural skepticism is just healthy in avenues where you're expecting to be targeted by PR.

If you dig deeper, it is unclear whether Sony management have a hand in the Manning case at all. But I'll let the sleeping dog lie .

This, on the other hand, is more like I just figured out that my friend who use to recommend movies for me to buy only hang out with me because he's paid to get people to buy DVDs (I'm exaggerating, I know).

My question is what is this ? What facts do we have other than 1 poster's interpretation on what's reported in a BDA meeting ? Does anyone have Hydra's marketing brief ? If not, we are just discussing a shape shifter. It can be anything.

Sony also initiated a "blogger" program last month, which turned out great for them IMHO. LittleBigPlanet and Home were reported consistently across the sites. There are disagreements and we (forum posters, media and Sony) talked it out in the open.

Without a sufficient online marketing presence, Blu-ray suffered severe criticisms from half-truths/wild guesses about Sony's MPEG 2 only support, uncertain dual layer future, lousy PS3 playback, and theory about Sony being the largest benefactor of Blu-ray, etc. ... A large part of it was due to poor execution, but some part can also be credited to lack of communication. For their own sake, I think a well thought out online strategy is imperative.

It's trying to bypass my right to ignore marketing by penetrating an area in which it does not belong under false pretenses. Letting marketing sneak in to the areas of our lives in which we're not currently expecting it would turn us all into misanthropes.

I, for one, don't want that and would rather have marketing stay the fuck out of where it does not belong.

Not really directed against this particular campaign or Blu-Ray, but the words used to describe 'Hydra' send all the wrong signals, IMO.

We then have to ask ourselves: Does the AVS poster represent BDA ?
There are certainly enough rooms for them to repeat old mistakes, but it is equally likely that they can do the right thing.

 

[Zaphod]

My question is what is this ?

This, according to available information, is a marketing campaign which "purpose is to seed "high profile" forums with Blu-ray advocates".

You're right, though, that the only thing to go by is "1 poster's interpretation on what's reported in a BDA meeting", thus my disclaimer.

The wording, however, sounds much like paraphrasing a blurb coming from any of the 'modern' marketing firms looking to make a quick big buck by subverting a phenomenon traditional marketing doesn't understand into sellable phrases acceptable by management. I've met my share of these people, and from what I've seen, those who're suggesting ways to use viral mechanisms and social networks in marketing tend to loose out with management to those who desire to abuse them. (The first kind would suggest something cheap and ethical that might pay off big, while the latter type would promise results - for a price - and use all the proper marketing buzzwords.)