PGR3 appreciation thread.
- Thread starter Deepblue
- Start date
Deepblue said:Such a gorgeous game.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c151/xbox360pictures/Picture383.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c151/xbox360pictures/Picture385.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/360picsoffmyhdtv/DSC00208.jpg
http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/8826/pgr3178tq.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c151/xbox360pictures/Picture386.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/360picsoffmyhdtv/DSC00267.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/antd/ferr3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/antd/pgr3enzo2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/antd/f430.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/antd/new5.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/tobypgr3/pgr3/enzoback.jpg
http://www.reddeth.com/trav/panny3.JPG
http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/9227/pgr332kv.jpg
http://img312.imageshack.us/img312/2797/16rb2.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7326/123yl.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c207/chsextramaterial/PGR3/100_0813.jpg
http://xs62.xs.to/pics/06010/IMG_3197.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e134/feckhead01/DSC00045.jpg
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/6708/image109bh.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v48/leeeeee/tvr.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e134/feckhead01/DSC00120.jpg
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/8876/pgr372gt.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/3758/pgr3133pg.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/5470/pgr3175ac.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/3869/pgr3277zf.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/c1rca101/vg000033.jpg
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/4779/17hz2.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/c1rca101/vg000050.jpg
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/5338/prg3001large3tz.jpg
http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/8120/pgr3315rr.jpg
Awesome vid:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=p-P7WWLIxdE&search=project gotham racing 3
(PGR3 is the one on the big screen
And??
This are photomode pics not ingame Shots,you see that on AA and more lighteffects,the
real game on a Samsung LCD doesent looks like this!!!!!!!!!
I'd like to ask why gameplay graphics in games like PGR3 or GT always look worse than "photomode" graphics.
Obviously it's the game code overhead but more specifically in photomode the GPU is rendering those graphics to the screen so it's *capable* of rendering graphics like that so where does the bound come in when running in "game" mode?
What precisely is the CPU/GPU doing or not doing that creates that drop in visuals?
Obviously it's the game code overhead but more specifically in photomode the GPU is rendering those graphics to the screen so it's *capable* of rendering graphics like that so where does the bound come in when running in "game" mode?
What precisely is the CPU/GPU doing or not doing that creates that drop in visuals?
Certainly in PGR3, when it's a still photo, you've not got all that dynamic stuff going on, like camera flashes and crowd movement etc, so some processing is saved there. I wouldn't think that would save enough to render internally at 720p though.
Could it be that in photo mode, it is running at 30fps? That would give you twice the processing power to play with and 30fps wouldn't be that noticable in the garage or just panning round a car in photo mode. I know in the garage, sometimes things can be pretty slow when you do big movements, but that's pretty uncommon.
Could it be that in photo mode, it is running at 30fps? That would give you twice the processing power to play with and 30fps wouldn't be that noticable in the garage or just panning round a car in photo mode. I know in the garage, sometimes things can be pretty slow when you do big movements, but that's pretty uncommon.
Paul_G said:
Photomode in 30fps???
PGR3 already runs at 30fps in races.
Photomode is completely different because it lets you set up the camera the way you want, and the system can take as long as it likes to render the frame. During the real game it can only render one frame every 0.03 seconds. Obviously a photo frame will have much more resources all for itself, first of all in resolution, the AA, then all effects that are just rendered at a higher quality than in the real game.
Same goes for GT4 and all the other games with a photomode, only in GT4 real races the system has half the time to render frames, which means that the quality discrepancies with its photomode are potentially bigger.
these are pics I took in the photo mode BEFORE "taking" the photo, when i was able to move the camera around, so it's real time stuff, real ingame graphics, or at least replay graphics:
http://membres.lycos.fr/lecultedumuscle/hpburl/Photo-0040.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/lecultedumuscle/hpburl/Photo-0043.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/lecultedumuscle/hpburl/Photo-0045.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/lecultedumuscle/hpburl/Photo-0046.jpg
[Moderated : Images rules.]
http://membres.lycos.fr/lecultedumuscle/hpburl/Photo-0040.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/lecultedumuscle/hpburl/Photo-0043.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/lecultedumuscle/hpburl/Photo-0045.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/lecultedumuscle/hpburl/Photo-0046.jpg
[Moderated : Images rules.]
london-boy said:
I'm useless at all this fps stuff, to be perfectly honest
i didn't notice much difference between PGR 1 and 2, and to me, it looked like this one was back to 60fps. I know some people are really sensitive to it, but 30fps is fine by melondon-boy said:
Well the thing is, from what i remember (haven't used photo mode in a few weeks), you can pan around the scene in real time, but the scene is in photo mode quality, so the question remains doesn't it? if the frame rate is the same, what are they getting rid of that allows this increase in quality? All the effects are there, at 30fps, just like in game, but it looks a lot nicer. Same goes for garage mode, that is at 30fps, and you can do what you like, but it's rendered at a better level than in a race...
Mintmaster
Veteran
Thanks, but if I may make one request, can you find a nice place to take a photo and then show us the realtime and photo shots? Then we can compare the photo mode and gameplay graphics to see what makes the latter look good.Karamazov said:
Paul_G said:
AI and other gameplay mechanics that are used in "racing-mode" are turned off in photo-mode for one. I'm guessing only one car is visible (the car you want to take a photo of), there's probably no physics going on and the level itself may be a special photo-mode one that has more detail due to the extra headroom.
Phil said:
Photomode will simply be a snapshot of wherever you paused the game, so you could have an image of all the cars in the race in that shot. I agree, physics would not be an issue, but regards the level, it is an instant transition to go from normal mode to photo mode, whereas loading the level takes as much as 30 seconds, so unless they load both types at the beginning of the race, i think it is the same level
To be honest, i don't know what parts of the game are allocated to Xenos vs Xenon. I would assume that the savings in AI, physics etc would be on the CPU rather than the GPU, which would not benefit the visuals so much...
I'm not quite sure I understand how photo-mode works in PGR3, but to answer the original question "why developers wouldn't make their in-game graphics better when they're already doing it in photo-mode" suggessts the logical answer that they would if they could.
Obviously, photo-mode and gameplay-mode are two different sets of features within the game, each with its own sets of requirements. In gameplay-mode, it's important to have the game run at a steady constant framerate, have physics, AI, controller input etc running at a very high framerate. Every frame must be drawn in 1/30th of a second to form that constant framerate. In photo-mode, detail is more important, but framerate wouldn't since the objective isn't to play the game but to take pictures and I assume fiddle around with different apertures, shutter speeds etc to influence the picture.
Perhaps, when you switch from gameplay-mode into photo-mode, you can move the camera around the stage in absolute realtime (while the game is obviously paused and freezed). At that point, there's no physics going on, AI or anything going on. At that point, I suppose that additional headroom could be used to improve a few details etc. It's also possible that when you move the camera around in photo-mode that it's not running at that solid 30 fps framerate but at a slightly slower one that again gives some headroom.
Anyway, bear with me incase I'm picturing photomode wrong, but I really haven't used that mode, so I'm basically going out of my way looking for possible suggestions as to where they are getting that headroom from.
Cheers Phil
Obviously, photo-mode and gameplay-mode are two different sets of features within the game, each with its own sets of requirements. In gameplay-mode, it's important to have the game run at a steady constant framerate, have physics, AI, controller input etc running at a very high framerate. Every frame must be drawn in 1/30th of a second to form that constant framerate. In photo-mode, detail is more important, but framerate wouldn't since the objective isn't to play the game but to take pictures and I assume fiddle around with different apertures, shutter speeds etc to influence the picture.
Perhaps, when you switch from gameplay-mode into photo-mode, you can move the camera around the stage in absolute realtime (while the game is obviously paused and freezed). At that point, there's no physics going on, AI or anything going on. At that point, I suppose that additional headroom could be used to improve a few details etc. It's also possible that when you move the camera around in photo-mode that it's not running at that solid 30 fps framerate but at a slightly slower one that again gives some headroom.
Anyway, bear with me incase I'm picturing photomode wrong, but I really haven't used that mode, so I'm basically going out of my way looking for possible suggestions as to where they are getting that headroom from.
Cheers Phil
Paul_G said:I'm useless at all this fps stuff, to be perfectly honest
Well the thing is, from what i remember (haven't used photo mode in a few weeks), you can pan around the scene in real time, but the scene is in photo mode quality, so the question remains doesn't it? if the frame rate is the same, what are they getting rid of that allows this increase in quality? All the effects are there, at 30fps, just like in game, but it looks a lot nicer. Same goes for garage mode, that is at 30fps, and you can do what you like, but it's rendered at a better level than in a race...
The fact that you can twist the camera around to set up the shot doesn't mean anything, as i've already explained. When you actually "take" the picture, the system has a LOT more time to render it than when you're actually racing, we're talking about 30 to 60 times as much time to render it. All that time is spent making sure that the picture is as clean as possible and that the effects are as precise as possible.
Just incase you didn't notice, when you take a picture in photo-mode the screen goes blank for about half a second. The system is rendering out the higher resolution, increased effect version of the image you want to save, so it is hardly real time. It's like the photo mode in Gran Turismo 4, the game it's self can't render motion blur and 1080p in real time but it can produce a single image like that with enough processing time in photo mode. This has nothing to do with physics and AI.
I take both your points, but i don't think i explained too well. As far as i can see, the bit where you line your shot up is high detail, like the photo, so regardless of how long it has to render for the final photo, it's still rendering in high detail at 30fps or whatever it runs at when you're setting up angles etc. If it were the same level of detail when you're setting the shot up as it is in game, you'd be right on, but it's not, the photo mode level of detail is apparent in real time bits too, same with the garage you can walk around.
My point about physics and AI is that if we accept that it is rendering at a higher level of detail in real time (when lining the shot up and in the garage) the only things it's not doing at that point are physics and AI.