NV30/ 9700 PRO Image quality

Sherlock

Newcomer
Some of you may remember the days when Nvidia turned many enthusiasts away from 3DFX with their superior 32bit color rendering (if you remember, initially it was a slideshow ;)). I remember this as the time TOM became a big NV believer. Other than that isolated event I cannot recall even one time seeing NV image quality beating the competition. Shaders and T/L were added to their products early but by the time those technologies became viable the competion had better quality. Why would this be? Likely reasons are that Nvidia only puts into their reference designs what they can get away with. Inferior quality parts meant for profit, but to fool their customer's untrained eye; "hey, they'll never tell the difference" seems to be their motto. The superior NV cards seem a farce to me, I get better results with my overclocked 8500 than many gf4Ti owners, and I really appreciate the r200's image quality though it's a generation "behind".
This is not meant as a Nvidia flame, enthusiasts who like Nvidia need to address this issue with them in the interests of the industry. I was also ruthlessly harassing ATI on their fan sites about their driver quality/support and they made a 100% turn around. Have hope, the power is with the people.
What is all this getting at? I am really doubting that Nvidia currently has the integrity to build a product that really shines if they have the chance to save a dollar or two. I hope this changes. For now ATI will likely remain king in image quality regardless of Nvidia's efforts to sell shader instructions. ;)
 
I'd really like an impartial view of image quality, but I think the only way to get one is to buy both products. Ever since my original Radeon I've been "afraid" to buy Nvidia, because of their lackluster image quality (based on my own experiences).
 
Sherlock said:
This is not meant as a Nvidia flame
But it is, nevertheless.

I am really doubting that Nvidia currently has the integrity to build a product that really shines if they have the chance to save a dollar or two.
Signal quality is a product of board component quality. NVIDIA sells chips, not boards. So what was your point again?
 
I would like to commend Anand for his excellent screen shots in his review...

Anandtech screen shot:

R3006XAA.jpg
<--- :LOL:

Rage3D member

ScreenShot%201.jpg


Sad when a forum member uploads better screen shots than a review site that just got a freebie card..ATI I hope you're noticing this :p
 
The AA quality images in the anandtech review serve their purpose... If you have a small cut out of the same image rendered on all the cards placed closely together you can better pick out any potential differences between them.

Not to mention he does have to pay for bandwidth, *looks at all the ATi banners on anandtech.com* unless ATi have been picking up the tab. :LOL:
 
I disagree there is more to screen shots than jaggies...anisotropic filtering and LOD can't be judged by a thumbnail alone.
They have like 8 servers so it isn't like he is hurting for cash...Look at Hothardware's review or even here...we are talking graphic cards here...
I still can't believe it :LOL:
 
Oompa Loompa said:
Sherlock said:
This is not meant as a Nvidia flame
But it is, nevertheless.
I am really doubting that Nvidia currently has the integrity to build a product that really shines if they have the chance to save a dollar or two.
Signal quality is a product of board component quality. NVIDIA sells chips, not boards. So what was your point again?
Okay, but it's constructive flaming. ;)
The point is NV card image quality.
 
a little bit off topic but where are the 100,000 polys per frame in Morrowind ?
I just see a few hundreds polys for the environment in this shot + a few hundreds ones for the character ...
 
Lessard said:
a little bit off topic but where are the 100,000 polys per frame in Morrowind ?
I just see a few hundreds polys for the environment in this shot + a few hundreds ones for the character ...

It's in all those things that you can't see that the crappy Morrowind engine renders anyway.
 
As someone said, nVidia is in the market to sell chips, not boards. Blaming them for using 'cheap quality' parts is off the mark imo.
 
Ty,

ATI has moved to a new business model and their boards from Gigabyte etc are just as good as the ATI boards in image quality...either ATI is more strict on the Reference design or Nvidia board makers are cutting corners.
 
It looks as good on my RadeOn 8500 except for AA of course (since I don't use AA) but it's far from running at interactive framerate (<10fps in city, 30 outside).

anyone know what computer is required to make this game run smooth ?

(talking about Morrowind)
 
After GF4, imagequality is great on NVIDIA regardless of brand. On GF3 you could get both good and bad.

The Morrowind picture sure looks good, so I tried to reproduce it on my GF4.
Turned aniso all the way up, used 2X fSAA (since the resolution is 1600*1200) and used max viewdistance in Morrowind (that is what is used there).

After taking lots of screenshots I found out that FSAA is gone on the pictures. For some reason all pictures are saved without FSAA, well well. Either way, the IQ was pretty much the same. The colors were just as good, and beside the edges it looked very similar. But one thing was differet: The R300 pictures is a little bit sharper. Not much. I guess it's because of the one level higher aniso.

I was at some point actually quite pissed at NVIDIA because the first pictures I took were not so good. The colors were not very vibrant and everything looked much worse. When I found out that the viewdistance were different the picture was much better :) (the fog is making the picture more bright when it's too close).

Off topic? possibly, I just wanted to try it out, because that picture above just rocked me off my chair ;)
 
are negative numbers an option? :)

No seriously I got around 10fps outside. Inside the boat in the start I got 15-20fps. Terrible yes I know.

Settings 1600*1200 2X FSAA, max aniso in the drivers. Max view distance, and max realtime shadows in the game. Those shadows are killing my computer hehe.

It's obvious from the picture I took that Radeon has a larger max level on the anisotrophic filtering.

http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~vidaralm/Img/Morrowind.jpg

Same settings but without real-time shadows the framerate inside is 20-40 and 15fps at the screenshot place, instead of 11fps with shadows :) (btw I got a Ti4200, Athlon 2000+).
 
Hi,

I've gone through most of the game optimization guides, and pretty much everything comes back to the theory that they are doing back-to-front rendering. The only card that I've seen manage to pull low scores of 20fps or higher when all the shadows/distance settings are at max was my friend's ti4600 P4 2.4GHz rig. My athlon 1.7GHz with a ti200 goes down to about 8fps in balmora. Of course indoor scores are still around 80fps. Pretty much your best bet from what I've heard is to lower your view distance to about 2/3rds (which makes it still somewhat playable), and turn off shadows. This seems to help a fair amount.

Kind of ironic isn't it? By using the back-to-front rendering, they *can* claim a hundred thousand polys.

Bah.

Nite_Hawk
 
Galilee said:
Either way, the IQ was pretty much the same. The colors were just as good, and beside the edges it looked very similar. But one thing was differet: The R300 pictures is a little bit sharper. Not much. I guess it's because of the one level higher aniso.

I tend to disagree a little. That pic's edge AA is noticeably better than what I can get out of Morrowind at 16x12 with even 4xS enabled. I play the game at 1280x960 with 2x AA and 4x AF (in-game options maxed, except for shadows, which are at half) and get decent performance on my P4 2.4B with 1066 RDRAM. I do have a 19x14 shot I use as a desktop image.
 
GetStuff said:
The AA quality images in the anandtech review serve their purpose... If you have a small cut out of the same image rendered on all the cards placed closely together you can better pick out any potential differences between them.

Low contrast shots like Anand used aren't the best for edge AA comparisons. At least IMO.
 
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