No more CRT from this year (UK)

[London Geezer]

DSG stopped selling video recorders in 2004 and expects to drop bulky televisions sometime this year, although it may continue to stock 14-inch portables "for students and kids", said John Clare, chief executive of Britain's biggest electrical goods retailer

DSG supplies goods to the Dixons/Currys group by the way...

At last CRT is dying. That means that from 2006, almost all TVs sold will be flatscreens, and most of those will be HD-Ready!! Might mean all the new HD movie formats could come out sooner than expected, seen how acceptance increased much faster than expected.

I could have waited a little bit, cause this will mean prices will come down even more in the coming months, but i just couldn't wait!!! Loving my LCD HDTV

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

DSG supplies goods to the Dixons/Currys group by the way...

DSG actually owns Dixons/Currys, so it's just that one group. Of course they have an interest in saying the CRT TV is dead, because they won't be selling them anymore. The CRT will still be around for a while, especially in the computing field where some of us won't compromise.

At last CRT is dying. That means that from 2006, almost all TVs sold will be flatscreens, and most of those will be HD-Ready!! Might mean all the new HD movie formats could come out sooner than expected, seen how acceptance increased much faster than expected.

Yeah, great "HD-Ready" TVs that can't do HDTV resolutions, but merely downscale HDTV signals to their native screen-size. Take a look around your local Dixons or Currys and see how many "HD-Ready" set can actually do 1920 x 1080 for a proper 1080p. People are just being conned into buying bottom end 1080i, and in a couple of years will wonder what they spent their money on when they see a true HDTV display. Of course the likes of DSG won't care, because they'll just tell you to buy one of their newer products.

I could have waited a little bit, cause this will mean prices will come down even more in the coming months, but i just couldn't wait!!! Loving my LCD HDTV

I wouldn't mind so much if the tech was as good as CRT and was a similar price - instead it's more expensive with significant downsides: poor viewing angles, poor blacks, burn-in, dead/hot pixels, ghosting, etc. i'll stick to a good CRT until they actually manage to produce a better non-CRT display instead of fluking into a product line that was orginally thought to be for only for status-seekers.

 

[London Geezer]

About 1080p, on a 32" like i have i'd hardly see the difference, at the distance i'll be watching. In the end a nice Bluray movie will look absolutely gorgeous on my set even if it has 1368x768 resolution.

And about CRT vs LCD, i don't think this argument will ever die. All i can say is that my new HDTV has much much much better image quality than any CRT i've seen, on any source, and on HD sources it will be no comparison really. And the style/space saving really adds to the value. Even the wives love them and that's saying something...

In the UK the whole 1080p issue won't be a problem for a long time. When it becomes "needed", i'll just buy a new set

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

About 1080p, on a 32" like i have i'd hardly see the difference, at the distance i'll be watching. In the end a nice Bluray movie will look absolutely gorgeous on my set even if it has 1368x768 resolution.

And about CRT vs LCD, i don't think this argument will ever die. All i can say is that my new HDTV has much much much better image quality than any CRT i've seen, on any source, and on HD sources it will be no comparison really. And the style/space saving really adds to the value. Even the wives love them and that's saying something...

In the UK the whole 1080p issue won't be a problem for a long time. When it becomes "needed", i'll just buy a new set

You hope it won't be needed, and you hope you won't tell the difference. When Blue-Ray and HDDVD sort themselves out, and the cable and sattelite companies are doing HD (which will happen next year), you'll tell the difference as soon as you see a 1080p. HD is well established in the US & Japan, and it's going to come over here very quickly indeed now.

Maybe you'll be able to convice yourself otherwise, the same way you're convincing yourself you've made a worthwhile "HD-Ready" purchase now that Dixons wants to stop selling CRTs? I think you're just a fashion victim who likes the look of a thin flatscreen in your penthouse apartment.

When I bought a new CRT TV a while back, I had a good look around. Even now, a lot of plasmas and LCDs costing two or three times the price don't look as good as the quality CRT I bought. Bring on OLED I say!

 

[London Geezer]

Meh.. I'm the happiest man alive with my new LCD HDTV. All the rest is of no importance to me at the moment, cause in the UK, things will stay at the 720p stage for a loooooooooooong time.

When 1080p becomes the norm (and here even 720p is not the norm!!), then i'll upgrade. But really, worrying now about 1080p when we don't even have HD broadcasts yet at 720p is really silly.

I could have waited till we get 1080p panels, but what the hell, if i keep waiting and waiting, what's the point? Then when 1080p will be the norm you'll come back to me telling me that i'm wasting my money on a "normal 1080p TV" when i could wait for the new models that do donuts too?

You have to draw the line somewhere or you'll be waiting all your life!

Obviously i could wait for new models, but i needed a TV now and knowing myself, and knowing how things will work out in the UK in the next years, a 720p model will suffice my needs (Sky HD, next gen gaming alll at 720p) more than well enough.

The fact that the set has a native 1368x768 res instead of a 1280x720 res is largely irrelevant to me cause either way, HD material looks absolutely amazing.

If i were SO worried about IQ, i'd have bought a Philips or Panasonic set anyway. But i have to draw the line somewhere.

EDIT: And YES i totally LOVE the look of the flatscreen in my apartment! Doesn't mean i'm a fashion victim, i don't follow fashions, i dicktate them!

 

[Blazkowicz]

still happy with 21" CRT and six national channels on good old analog air broadcast
576i SECAM with digital stereo sound is good enough for me (never seen PAL broadcast but I guess it's similar), movies are almost DVD quality (no greatly noticeable difference to me).

I don't want more channels (when there's only crap on the TV, do something else. I get to see great movies and TV stuff often enough on six good channels), I don't even see the move from 576i to 720p as groundbreaking (arguably a 25% increase in vertical resolution though there's p versus i, but afterall interlacing is what makes CRT TVs look good)
I don't even like 16/9 screens as I find very painful to watch 4/3 content of these, and your 2.35 movies will still be letterboxed anyway.

 

[Captain Chickenpants]

still happy with 21" CRT and six national channels on good old analog air broadcast
576i SECAM with digital stereo sound is good enough for me (never seen PAL broadcast but I guess it's similar), movies are almost DVD quality (no greatly noticeable difference to me).

I don't want more channels (when there's only crap on the TV, do something else. I get to see great movies and TV stuff often enough on six good channels), I don't even see the move from 576i to 720p as groundbreaking (arguably a 25% increase in vertical resolution though there's p versus i, but afterall interlacing is what makes CRT TVs look good)
I don't even like 16/9 screens as I find very painful to watch 4/3 content of these, and your 2.35 movies will still be letterboxed anyway.

Ah those wacky French and their SECAM

It is hard to really explain the difference between a SD stream and a High Def stream in terms of quality. It is only when you see them that it becomes apparent.

I can understand your dislike of 4:3 content on a 16:9 display. If it does the 'Smart' scaling stuff it can look awful, and many people can't cope with big black borders at the side of the screen. One technique some people use is to cover the edges with blinds or flaps of carboard.

Tru that a 2.35:1 movie will still be letterboxed, but not by much. To get a comparable image size on a 4:3 tele you would need a very large set indeed!

Can't argue with the lack of quality programming though. About the only things I watch on TV are the Simpsons and Friends (and I have probably seen every episode of both a million times), the current trend for 'reality' tv sickens me.

CC

 

[London Geezer]

still happy with 21" CRT and six national channels on good old analog air broadcast
576i SECAM with digital stereo sound is good enough for me (never seen PAL broadcast but I guess it's similar), movies are almost DVD quality (no greatly noticeable difference to me).

I don't want more channels (when there's only crap on the TV, do something else. I get to see great movies and TV stuff often enough on six good channels), I don't even see the move from 576i to 720p as groundbreaking (arguably a 25% increase in vertical resolution though there's p versus i, but afterall interlacing is what makes CRT TVs look good)
I don't even like 16/9 screens as I find very painful to watch 4/3 content of these, and your 2.35 movies will still be letterboxed anyway.

Damn french!!! It's people like YOU holding technology back for people like us!!! "SECAM is good enough, who cares about HD, i like my 20 year old Citroen TV!"... Classic, it's always the french!!!














I really was joking...

 

[pascal]

...I don't want more channels (when there's only crap on the TV, do something else. I get to see great movies and TV stuff often enough on six good channels), I don't even see the move from 576i to 720p as groundbreaking (arguably a 25% increase in vertical resolution though there's p versus i, but afterall interlacing is what makes CRT TVs look good)...

But IIRC the horizontal increase is more than 140% then the total increase is 3:1

 

[kyleb]

You hope it won't be needed, and you hope you won't tell the difference. When Blue-Ray and HDDVD sort themselves out, and the cable and sattelite companies are doing HD (which will happen next year), you'll tell the difference as soon as you see a 1080p. HD is well established in the US & Japan, and it's going to come over here very quickly indeed now.

Maybe you'll be able to convice yourself otherwise, the same way you're convincing yourself you've made a worthwhile "HD-Ready" purchase now that Dixons wants to stop selling CRTs? I think you're just a fashion victim who likes the look of a thin flatscreen in your penthouse apartment.

You sound more like the fason snob who turns their nose to anything that doesn't Gucci or whatever writen on it even with no plans to buy anything of the sort in the first place. LB is just being logical; if he did replace his 32" with one that did 1920x1080 display he'd have to sit no more than about 4 feet from it for his eyes to fully resolve that resolutioin anyway, and that is assuming he has around 20/20 vision. For any given screen size and viewing distance, uping the resolution has diminsihing returns; yes there are situations where native 1080p will make a notable difference and even situations where such a high native resolution is necessary; but LB doesn't have to "hope" he isn't in such a situation, there criteras are fairly straight foward and for many situations native 1080p is blatently overkill.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

You sound more like the fason snob who turns their nose to anything that doesn't Gucci or whatever writen on it even with no plans to buy anything of the sort in the first place. LB is just being logical; if he did replace his 32" with one that did 1920x1080 display he'd have to sit no more than about 4 feet from it for his eyes to fully resolve that resolutioin anyway, and that is assuming he has around 20/20 vision. For any given screen size and viewing distance, uping the resolution has diminsihing returns; yes there are situations where native 1080p will make a notable difference and even situations where such a high native resolution is necessary; but LB doesn't have to "hope" he isn't in such a situation, there criteras are fairly straight foward and for many situations native 1080p is blatently overkill.

There's a reason why the spec goes up to 1080p, and when that's what is coming on Blu-Ray and HDDVD, I wouldn't be happy only getting half of that, and that's what happens when you buy almost all the "HD-ready" TVs that are currently being pushed hard over here by the likes of DSG.

There are all other kinds of drawbacks with plasma and LCD, and that's why even the manufacturers are calling them an intermediate technology that will soon be phased out in favour of better flat-screen solutions. You only have to walk around a showroom and look to see the massive difference in picture quality of flat-screens. Even the best ones have trouble giving as good a picture as a decent CRT costing less than half the price unless you spend a heck of a lot of money.

 

[kyleb]

There's a reason why the spec goes up to 1080p, and when that's what is coming on Blu-Ray and HDDVD, I wouldn't be happy only getting half of that, and that's what happens when you buy almost all the "HD-ready" TVs that are currently being pushed hard over here by the likes of DSG.

So even if you were using a TV of a given size and at a given distance to where it would be phyiscaly impossible to notice the difference in resolution between 720p and 1080p, you wouldn't be happy with a native 720p just becuase you know there are higher resolution displays avalable? I don't see any logic in that at all.

There are all other kinds of drawbacks with plasma and LCD, and that's why even the manufacturers are calling them an intermediate technology that will soon be phased out in favour of better flat-screen solutions. You only have to walk around a showroom and look to see the massive difference in picture quality of flat-screens. Even the best ones have trouble giving as good a picture as a decent CRT costing less than half the price unless you spend a heck of a lot of money.

Yeah, if you don't want anything over 34" widescreen, don't mind the size and power draw, care more about contrast and color than perfect geometry, and don't mind regularly recalculating the display's convergence and such, then a CRT is your best choice. On the other hand, there are also plenty of reasons one might be better off with something other than a CRT even when those other choices cost more.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

So even if you were using a TV of a given size and at a given distance to where it would be phyiscaly impossible to notice the difference in resolution between 720p and 1080p, you wouldn't be happy with a native 720p just becuase you know there are higher resolution displays avalable? I don't see any logic in that at all.

I wouldn't be happy that during the lifespan of a "HD-Ready" TV, I wouldn't have the choice of using the higher resolution that HDTV is specced at - you're buying half HD. I personally don't intend to buy a new quality TV costing thousands of pounds every year. You're suggesting I can't tell the difference, whereas I'm suggesting I can. I do actually have better than 20-20 vision, and years of monitor use have sensitised me to display quality.

I certainly don't understand the logic of spending a lot of money buying something that claims to meet a common spec, when it doesn't, knowing full well that those same companies are already bringing out some products that do meet the spec, and will bring more over the next 12 months.

Yeah, if you don't want anything over 34" widescreen, don't mind the size and power draw, care more about contrast and color than perfect geometry, and don't mind regularly recalculating the display's convergence and such, then a CRT is your best choice. On the other hand, there are also plenty of reasons one might be better off with something other than a CRT even when those other choices cost more.

Sounds great to swap all that for poor blacks, poor viewing angles, burn-in, hot/dead pixels with no recourse of the guarentee, etc all at quadruple the price for technology that's already going to obseleted by the time HDTV broadcasts and next-gen DVD arrives. I actually want something better than current technology, not just something with a different (and IMO overall slightly worse) set of problems at a much higher price.

 

[kyleb]

You're suggesting I can't tell the difference, whereas I'm suggesting I can.

I'm not suggesting that, I'm telling you that it is a straight up fact that after on a given sized display, after a given distance, adding resolution isn't going to do you a bit of good. Beyond that, the image quality improvement gained from increasing the native resolution of a display isn't a linear progression either, but ratther of situation of diminishing returns where in many cases a native 1080p display will do little to nothing over one of more common HD resolutions. You can hold out for the next new thing forever if you like as there is always progress on the horizon, but the specs for HD displays were laid out over a year ago and anything that meets those specs will not be obsolite anytime soon and is most centanly not "half HD."

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

I'm not suggesting that, I'm telling you that it is a straight up fact that after on a given sized display, after a given distance, adding resolution isn't going to do you a bit of good. Beyond that, the image quality improvement gained from increasing the native resolution of a display isn't a linear progression either, but ratther of situation of diminishing returns where in many cases a native 1080p display will do little to nothing over one of more common HD resolutions. You can hold out for the next new thing forever if you like as there is always progress on the horizon, but the specs for HD displays were laid out over a year ago and anything that meets those specs will not be obsolite anytime soon and is most centanly not "half HD."

If something is shot in 1080p and you're watching it in 720p, you're not getting the full quality - you're getting a downscaled version.

 

[kyleb]

And again, unless the display is big enough and you are sitting close enough, even on a native 1080p you are getting a "version" that is effective downsampled by your eyes, and even on a 720p display it still falls into the criteria of HD. But aside from that, what is shot in 1080p anyway?

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

And again, unless the display is big enough and you are sitting close enough, even on a native 1080p you are getting a "version" that is effective downsampled by your eyes, and even on a 720p display it still falls into the criteria of HD. But aside from that, what is shot in 1080p anyway?

Why bother getting any kind of quality display then if it's only going to be ruined by your eyes, how far your sofa is, whether you've left the curtains open, etc? Maybe people who wear glasses shouldn't bother with any kind of quality display at all?

Lots of new stuff is getting shot in higher resolutions. It causing massive cost rises in makeup, sets and costumes, because now the viewers can see all the shortcuts the movie and TV production companies used to be able to get away with.

 

[kyleb]

Why bother getting any kind of quality display then if it's only going to be ruined by your eyes, how far your sofa is, whether you've left the curtains open, etc? Maybe people who wear glasses shouldn't bother with any kind of quality display at all?

Nah, there is plenty of middle ground.

Lots of new stuff is getting shot in higher resolutions. It causing massive cost rises in makeup, sets and costumes, because now the viewers can see all the shortcuts the movie and TV production companies used to be able to get away with.

Should I take that to mean that you don't know of anything shot in 1080p either?

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Should I take that to mean that you don't know of anything shot in 1080p either?

Nope, you should look it up yourself if you want details. You can start with the last two Star Wars films and most of the trailers at the apple HD site. Most digital movie transfers are being done in 1080p, and that's what will be on HDDVD and BluRay (they will be able to offer the bandwith better than cable/satellite/digital).

 

[Diplo]

TV is rubbish, anyway.