News about Rambus and the PS3

[McFly]

( BW)(CA-RAMBUS/TOSHIBA/ELPIDA)(RMBS) Rambus, Toshiba and Elpida Announce XDR DRAM, the World's Fastest Memory; 3.2GHz DRAM Offers 8X the Bandwidth of Today's Best-of-Class PC Memory

Business Editors/High-Tech Writers

TOKYO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--July 10, 2003--Rambus Inc. (Nasdaq:RMBS), a leading provider of chip-to-chip interface products and services, along with Toshiba and Elpida, today announced XDR(TM) DRAM. XDR DRAM uses Rambus' XDR memory interface technology, formerly code-named Yellowstone. Running at 3.2GHz, XDR DRAM offers 8x the bandwidth of today's best-in-class PC memory. As Rambus announced earlier this year, Sony Corporation and Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. have licensed the XDR memory interface for utilization in future broadband applications with "Cell."
The XDR DRAM family has been architected to offer mainstream memory solutions for a broad range of applications. XDR DRAM is expected to initially serve the high-bandwidth needs of consumer, graphics, and networking applications, with eventual applicability for PC main memory, server and mobile systems when these applications require higher levels of bandwidth. XDR DRAM can provide the cost benefits of mainstream memory while still outperforming low-volume specialty DRAMs. XDR DRAM offers significant cost savings by providing the same system bandwidth as alternatives with fewer DRAM components, low-cost 4-layer PCBs, and inexpensive industry-standard packages.
Initially XDR DRAM will be offered at 3.2GHz with a roadmap to 6.4GHz and beyond, enabling memory system bandwidths up to 100GB/s. XDR DRAM will be available in multiple speed bins, device densities, and device widths. With densities ranging from 256Mb to 8Gb, and device widths ranging from x1 to x32, XDR DRAM satisfies the needs of both high-bandwidth and high-capacity systems. XDR memory's novel matrix topology allows point-to-point differential data interconnects to scale to multi-GHz speeds, while the bussed address and command signals allow a scalable range of memory system capacity supporting from one to 36 DRAM devices.
"Rambus is pleased that XDR DRAM is being supported by industry leaders. The XDR family provides a fresh approach to memory system design and will resolve bandwidth bottlenecks, enabling rich feature sets in next-generation broadband systems," said Laura Stark, vice president of the Memory Interface Division at Rambus. "With XDR memory, design engineers can successfully implement high performance systems at low system price points."
The XDR infrastructure, such as DRAM models, controller IO cells, clock generators, data sheets and system design guides, are available today for semiconductor and system design. From chip design to system integration and volume production, Rambus provides comprehensive services, support and a single point of contact for the entire memory system design to guarantee compatibility across multiple DRAM component vendors.
Toshiba and Elpida expect to begin shipping XDR DRAM in 2004, ramping to volume production in 2005. Additional information on XDR DRAM and the memory interface can be found at www.rambus.com/xdr .

100GB/s bandwith for external memory sounds really good.

Fredi

 

[London Geezer]

100Gb/s..... mmmmmmmm..... u need some good computational power to keep that full....
actually no, i'm sure 3DO could fill 100GB/s of crap very easily..

 

[McFly]

If the external memory is 512MB, then this can be read out 200 times per second, so in a 60Hz game you could read out the full external memory about three times per frame.

And don't forget the EDRAM.

Fredi

 

[chaphack]

Cool as it can sound, i wonder what be the latency? IIRC, PS2 PC800 RDRAM were criticized for delivering only 40-50% of its theoretical specs, right? Something the Xbox/GC fanboys whom loved to bring up was how cool their DDRAM/1TRAM has uber good latency timings.

 

[zidane1strife]

I don't think it'll have horrible latency(after all they're licensing it, and making it themselves with their own adjustments, no? toshiba has some good tech)

In any case the massive on-board/chip ram should help shield it, I hope, from any minor latency issues.

edited

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yellowstone is quite different from Direct RDRAM ( used in PlayStation 2 ) : the latency should not be as bad of a problem ( address bus is not multiplexed anymore with the data bus and we have bi-drectional busses between memory chips and memory controller )...

I would also expect only 25.6 GB/s and not 100 GB/s unless they use it inside the Cell chips as e-DRAM, but I doubt it...

I think 25.6 GB/s is high for an external RAM solution also because we have nice e-DRAM on both CPU and GPU to provide the ultra-high bandwidth they need...

 

[jvd]

Yellowstone is quite different from Direct RDRAM ( used in PlayStation 2 ) : the latency should not be as bad of a problem ( address bus is not multiplexed anymore with the data bus and we have bi-drectional busses between memory chips and memory controller )...

I would also expect only 25.6 GB/s and not 100 GB/s unless they use it inside the Cell chips as e-DRAM, but I doubt it...

I think 25.6 GB/s is high for an external RAM solution also because we have nice e-DRAM on both CPU and GPU to provide the ultra-high bandwidth they need...

I have to agree with you . Also the cost for this ram will be very very high at launch.

 

[Tagrineth]

Cool as it can sound, i wonder what be the latency? IIRC, PS2 PC800 RDRAM were criticized for delivering only 40-50% of its theoretical specs, right? Something the Xbox/GC fanboys whom loved to bring up was how cool their DDRAM/1TRAM has uber good latency timings.

Amusingly enough, PS2's DRDRAM apparently has less latency than Xbox's DDRSDRAM.

 

[Psychogenics]

( BW)(CA-RAMBUS/TOSHIBA/ELPIDA)(RMBS) Rambus, Toshiba and Elpida Announce XDR DRAM, the World's Fastest Memory; 3.2GHz DRAM Offers 8X the Bandwidth of Today's Best-of-Class PC Memory

Business Editors/High-Tech Writers

TOKYO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--July 10, 2003--Rambus Inc. (Nasdaq:RMBS), a leading provider of chip-to-chip interface products and services, along with Toshiba and Elpida, today announced XDR(TM) DRAM. XDR DRAM uses Rambus' XDR memory interface technology, formerly code-named Yellowstone. Running at 3.2GHz, XDR DRAM offers 8x the bandwidth of today's best-in-class PC memory. As Rambus announced earlier this year, Sony Corporation and Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. have licensed the XDR memory interface for utilization in future broadband applications with "Cell."
The XDR DRAM family has been architected to offer mainstream memory solutions for a broad range of applications. XDR DRAM is expected to initially serve the high-bandwidth needs of consumer, graphics, and networking applications, with eventual applicability for PC main memory, server and mobile systems when these applications require higher levels of bandwidth. XDR DRAM can provide the cost benefits of mainstream memory while still outperforming low-volume specialty DRAMs. XDR DRAM offers significant cost savings by providing the same system bandwidth as alternatives with fewer DRAM components, low-cost 4-layer PCBs, and inexpensive industry-standard packages. Initially XDR DRAM will be offered at 3.2GHz with a roadmap to 6.4GHz and beyond, enabling memory system bandwidths up to 100GB/s. XDR DRAM will be available in multiple speed bins, device densities, and device widths. With densities ranging from 256Mb to 8Gb, and device widths ranging from x1 to x32, XDR DRAM satisfies the needs of both high-bandwidth and high-capacity systems. XDR memory's novel matrix topology allows point-to-point differential data interconnects to scale to multi-GHz speeds, while the bussed address and command signals allow a scalable range of memory system capacity supporting from one to 36 DRAM devices.
"Rambus is pleased that XDR DRAM is being supported by industry leaders. The XDR family provides a fresh approach to memory system design and will resolve bandwidth bottlenecks, enabling rich feature sets in next-generation broadband systems," said Laura Stark, vice president of the Memory Interface Division at Rambus. "With XDR memory, design engineers can successfully implement high performance systems at low system price points." The XDR infrastructure, such as DRAM models, controller IO cells, clock generators, data sheets and system design guides, are available today for semiconductor and system design. From chip design to system integration and volume production, Rambus provides comprehensive services, support and a single point of contact for the entire memory system design to guarantee compatibility across multiple DRAM component vendors.
Toshiba and Elpida expect to begin shipping XDR DRAM in 2004, ramping to volume production in 2005. Additional information on XDR DRAM and the memory interface can be found at www.rambus.com/xdr .

They'll get there money back faster ensuring the risk.

 

[Grall]

I think 25.6 GB/s is high for an external RAM solution also because we have nice e-DRAM on both CPU and GPU to provide the ultra-high bandwidth they need...

I have to agree with you . Also the cost for this ram will be very very high at launch.

25.6GB/s will not be high in 2005, it will be low. PS3 will have 40+GB/s external b/w is my prediction.

Anyway, JvD, why you have the delusion this memory will be "very expensive"? It's just a small die of mostly dynamic RAM silicon, it won't be anything complicated to manufacture. Sony/Toshiba would likely fab it themselves like they do with PS2 RDRAM now.

There will be a slight royalty to be payed to rambus of course, but nothing horrible.

*G*

 

[Panajev2001a]

40+ GB/s is about the bandwidth the current GS has with its e-DRAM...

Of course PlayStation 3 will need much more bandwidth than that and that is why Cell makes a big bet on e-DRAM and this also follows the push of Sony and Toshiba in very advanced manufacturing processes.

I do not think 25.6 GB/s in 2005 will be worse than 3.2 GB/s in mid 2000, I am just trying not to look at the best case scenario for thsi technology, but of course PlayStation 3 is trying to really shake things up so their goals might be higher...

To achieve higher speeds you will have to increase the costs... either a faster base clock, a higher multiplication factor in the PLLs, using a >64 bits controller... that costs money...

 

[jvd]

I think 25.6 GB/s is high for an external RAM solution also because we have nice e-DRAM on both CPU and GPU to provide the ultra-high bandwidth they need...

I have to agree with you . Also the cost for this ram will be very very high at launch.

25.6GB/s will not be high in 2005, it will be low. PS3 will have 40+GB/s external b/w is my prediction.

Anyway, JvD, why you have the delusion this memory will be "very expensive"? It's just a small die of mostly dynamic RAM silicon, it won't be anything complicated to manufacture. Sony/Toshiba would likely fab it themselves like they do with PS2 RDRAM now.

There will be a slight royalty to be payed to rambus of course, but nothing horrible.

*G*

Looking at past history , the fact that it wont ramp up till 2005 and even then we don't know when in 2005 , the yields could be very very bad like previous rdram. This is the only product that is using the ram where as the ddram used in the xbox and most likely xbox 2 will be used in many diffrent products helping to drive price down even more. Also the royalty in the past to rambus has been outragous .

 

[MfA]

Assuming they have the same level of bandwith to the graphics chip that is already 256 data pins right there. It might be 1.5-2 faster than that, but I dont see them blowing 512 data pins (plus adress pins and extra power&grounding) on memory alone.

Rambus cant push this stuff on the PC, the architecture isnt right. It needs Sony to drive up the volume and do the R&D to make it viable at all, Im sure Sony got a sweet deal.

 

[Panajev2001a]

In 2000 there was already a chipset for the Pentium 4 using dual channel Direct RDRAM yelding 3.2 GB/s and this was the i850...

Now memory bandwidth has reached 4.2 GB/s in PCs... I do not see in 2005 even the top of the line PCs having a faster than 25.6 GB/s main RAM bandwidth...

 

[Panajev2001a]

256 data pins for 25.6 GB/s ?

In my calculations you would need 128 data pins ( for CPU and GPU )... we are using a 64 bits memory controller after-all... am I overlooking something here Marco ?

 

[jvd]

In 2000 there was already a chipset for the Pentium 4 using dual channel Direct RDRAM yelding 3.2 GB/s and this was the i850...

Now memory bandwidth has reached 4.2 GB/s in PCs... I do not see in 2005 even the top of the line PCs having a faster than 25.6 GB/s main RAM bandwidth...

who said they would have it in the pcs . Who said they'd even need it for the cpu - ram. I'm sure the graphics cards will have much more than 25.6 gbs and thats why i think the ps3 would be around 40gbs . With the r500 and nv50 being aroudn 70-80gbs

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yellowstone would be used as main RAM not as VRAM... the CPU ( Cell seems to use e-DRAM to support its massively parallel architecture ) and GPU would have e-DRAM which would probably not be Yellowstone, but custom e-DRAM by Sony, IBM and Toshiba.

 

[jvd]

Yellowstone would be used as main RAM not as VRAM... the CPU ( Cell seems to use e-DRAM to support its massively parallel architecture ) and GPU would have e-DRAM which would probably not be Yellowstone, but custom e-DRAM by Sony, IBM and Toshiba.

still don't see why they need the speed for system ram. Oh well guess time will tell .

 

[qwerty2000]

Is this new kind of memory going to be on the ps3 it would amazing

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yellowstone would be used as main RAM not as VRAM... the CPU ( Cell seems to use e-DRAM to support its massively parallel architecture ) and GPU would have e-DRAM which would probably not be Yellowstone, but custom e-DRAM by Sony, IBM and Toshiba.

still don't see why they need the speed for system ram. Oh well guess time will tell .

e-DRAM travelling at 60-100 GB/s cannot be fed fast enough from a 4.2 GB/s memory sub-system, unless you plan to have tons of e-DRAM on the chips which is not really likely IMHO...

25.6 GB/s would be economically feasible as far as main RAM is concerned and would allow to keep e-DRAM on the CPU and GPU lower than 64 MB if needed.

PlayStation 3 will be dealing with MASSIVE data streams and main memory cannot be such a big bottleneck to achieve maximum system performance...