My Turn, opinions clearly desired.

[RancidLunchmeat]

Well, the last rig that I built was about 5 years ago, it was one of the last AGP rigs. A P4 2.4 overclocking monster, all the bells and whistles available at the time.

A time that was almost immediately made obsolete by PCIe and a new socket. Thank you, one and all.

I'm not looking for the best and most expensive. I'm looking more for the best bang for the buck that is upgradeable.

I run dual monitors, but only in 2D applications. I have no desire to run SLI or Crossfire as those solutions are far too pricey and questionable for reasons everybody here already understands. So I'm really only interested in a 1xPCIe 16 slot.

I'm currently looking at the Q6600 for my CPU. I know I can get a dual core that is higher clocked than the Quad for the same price, but I'm willing to OC the quad for now and enjoy the performance gains (when available) for the quad.

So what I'm looking at is a motherboard chipset that can use of DDR2 as well as upgrade to DDR3, can utilize the Q6600 but also make use of the future 45nm CPUs that will be released Q1 of next year.

In order to make this happen do I need an X38 northbridge chipset? Or, is the X38 chipset overkill because it provides two PCIe x16 slots (non-SLI but Crossfire compliant) and I could make due with an older, less expensive chipset?

So my requirements would be:

8GB of DDR2 OR DDR3
1 PCIe x16 slot
1600mhz FSB
Compatibility with future 45nm CPUs

The rest of my requirements are pretty basic and will be fulfilled by even the most budget of motherboards and chipsets available.

Currently, I'm looking at the Gigabyte GA-X38-DQ6 motherboard (I have a Gigabyte fetish, sorry), the Q6600 processor, and the 8800GTS graphics card. Memory, storage, and optical drives are up for discussion but don't really impact the core of the system, IMO.

Except for the memory, where I'd like to be able to save a few handfuls of $$ initially by running DDR2 instead of DDR3 if I can pull it off.

All questions and comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a lot guys.

 

[Skrying]

8GB? You'll need four slots for that, and you're not going to pull off a motherboard can has 4 DDR2 and 4 DDR3 slots. If you ask me, there is no point at all in the board having DDR3. It really has no advantages at this point. Even in the future, as I seriously doubt your board would carry you past the next refresh from Intel, and DDR2 speeds should easily be able to handle those needs. So I'd recommend you go with a board having only DDR2 slots.

As for the 1600Mhz FSB, official? I'm not sure what boards will get the branding for that speed when it goes official. I can tell you almost all boards will likely be able to putt it off (My P965 based board can do that easily, for instance), but I'm not sure how strict you are, nor am I sure how the BIOS options will look like when identifying the CPU.

Also, if you wait for the refresh of the 8800GTS (is that still coming?) then go for it, but otherwise generally the 8800GT out performs it and is cheaper.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Well, this is what it says on Gigabyte's website DDR2 or DDR3
and it's specifically in reference to the X38 chipset:

Intel® X38 Express Chipset
The Intel® X38 Express Chipsets support the latest multi-core processors with FSB 1066MHz, including the upcoming 45nm processors, with its record breaking performance and greater energy efficiency. Intel® X38 chipset, with optimized system memory capabilities, chipset over-speed protection removed for maximum overclocking, providing faster boot and application load times and additional power savings. Intel® X38 chipset also offer options for both DDR2 and DDR3 memory support, providing scalable options for users wanting to take advantage of higher memory performance with less power consumption to run next generation applications such as high-definition video and 3D visualization.

That makes it sound like the X38 chipset can utilize either DDR2 or DDR3 so you aren't limited by memory slots, each memory slot can use either type of memory.

If this isn't the case, I'd definitely want to know!

Also, if you wait for the refresh of the 8800GTS (is that still coming?) then go for it, but otherwise generally the 8800GT out performs it and is cheaper.

Hmm? I thought the 8800GTS @ 320MB was by far the best performance for the dollar?

 

[Skrying]

No, it doesn't work like that. DDR2 and DDR3 slots are completely incompatible, both electronically and physically. What the that quotes means is that the X38 chipset can support either DDR2 or DDR3, but the motherboard must have the appropriate slots. The Gigabyte GA-X38-DQ6, at least the one at Newegg, only has DDR2 slots. Again though, I don't see this as something bad. DDR3 offers no advantages as this point, as FSB speeds won't scale high enough to make its potential speeds useful. DDR2 has plenty of headroom for 1600Mhz FSBs.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

No, it doesn't work like that. DDR2 and DDR3 slots are completely incompatible, both electronically and physically. What the that quotes means is that the X38 chipset can support either DDR2 or DDR3, but the motherboard must have the appropriate slots. The Gigabyte GA-X38-DQ6, at least the one at Newegg, only has DDR2 slots.

Ok, thank you! I didn't realize that before!

Ok, so if they are physically incompatible does it matter that my chipset will allow both? Clearly, it would appear the answer is NO.

So does that mean that in order to fit my requirements I don't need the X38 chipset and could use a "lesser" chipset instead?

If that's the case, what chipset should I be looking at?

And will those other chipsets also have the ability for the 1600mhz FSB and the newer CPU's?

Or do I have to pay more now to get the FSB and the ability to work with those chipsets that are coming next year?

Thanks for you help!

 

[Skrying]

Depends on the board. I'll give you an example. I have a Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 Revision 2.0. My 2.0 revision has some features over the 1.3, but is lacking some features of the 3.3. The 3.3 revision supports 1333Mhz FSB, my Revision 2.0 does not. I do believe though that my 2.0 can identify CPUs that run with 1333Mhz and once you raise the bus speed in the BIOS it'll be just fine, but the support there is not official. So its really hard to say what boards will and won't support 1600Mhz in that sense. I don't know any guarantees off the top of my head.

 

[BRiT]

Normally I would say to look at my signature, but my system specs are no longer listed there...

So far I agree with much of what's been said so far as to ditch DDR3 and go DDR2.

I'm running 8 GB on an older P965 chipset with a Q6600 CPU overclocked to 3.4 - 3.6Ghz. I hear the P35 chipset works well. However, I'm not sure how well either of them will work with the 45 nm CPUS.

 

[epicstruggle]

Can you wait about a month for the new cpus from intel? Some good stuff coming and you only have to wait a few weeks.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

I'm not going to make the purchase for another month or so, but even then, I'd probably just use the initial 45nm release to drive the price down on the existing chips.

The important thing is that the northbridge be able to handle the 45nm cpu's in a year or two for upgrading purposes, which according to Sky is questionable.

I also didn't know anybody else shared my love for Gigabyte, so that's refreshing.

 

[Valzic]

I am running a Q6600 running at 3.6 solid for the last 2 months. In addition I am running with 8GB of memory (DDR2). I am pretty happy with my setup and I have a ASUS p5K/e WIFI motherboard (P35).

If I was building one nowadays I probably go with a P38 motherboard. Again with DDR2 memory as DDR3 prices are such that with 8GB of memory, I bet you could replace your system with the saving in a year of DDR3 prices drops.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Thanks Val, so the P38 chipset is really all that I need?

Does anybody have a projected time frame of when the PCIe 2.0 will go into mainstream and start effecting the ability to upgrade the GPU?

I'm definitely looking at DDR2, definitely not looking to ever run multiple graphic cards.

My initial research was bringing up mobo's in the $250-$300 range, and I'd love to be able to bring that price down. Significantly if possible.

What's the main differences between the P965 and the P35 (and then) the P38 chipsets?

It might be that I only need a newer revision of the P965 chipset (like Sky stated) in order to accomplish what I want.

I'd rather spend $100 on a mobo now than $300, knowing that if I need to upgrade just the mobo in the future, I have that extra $200 to spend. Essentially a free upgrade in a year or two.

 

[Karoshi]

X38: pciE2.0 16+16
p35: pcie1.x 8+4(sb)
If you dont want Crossfire, you dont need the x38, and even then p35 crossfire doesnt lose too many % wrt x38. Differences to p35 are minimal in all other aspects, i´ve heard.
Check the creeps at xtremesystems.org (forums) for all your hardware love making needs, they are the best, but then expect 150 pages threads on particular motherboards
The abit ip35-e is a mfing cheap mb with some overclocking goodness, but then, the creeps may alsu suggests gigabyte p35 (6 variants, raid, 2x pcie, ... ) or some asus p35.
It´s a personal preference, have you been bitten by some particular brand before?
Do you love a particular logo? Gigabyte suits you? Check their threads, iirc they were happy with them. They were in my short list, too, more than anything for their availability and price in this 3rd world country.
Then it´s down to features. Do you want firewire? chipset raid? and so on.
For the record: just got an asus x38 (p5e) with an unexpensive intel e2140 (slightly overclocked, heh) waiting for the february 45nm quads for their cooler running and higher
overclocking. This particular mb is manufacturer certified(?) to 1600fsb.
Im a hardware snob, but i could have saved a bunch by going p35, and im starting to doubt in 6 months i will buy a 2nd 3870 instead of the gpu beast du jour.


So there, my *opinions*.

 

[Kurt]

Just a dumb question, what do you need 8GB for at this point? I can see the need to have two, maybe four. It's a serious question, I just can't picture a scenario where you would run any critical applications that possibly require such an amount of RAM, while at the same time compromising system stability by overclocking the crap out of the system. Is it just for bragging rights, because it just plain doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Valzic]

Well I know why I need 8GB. It may be different for others. But you are correct, that in most cases its is a waste of time getting 8GB.

I work at home and develop client/server applications so I will have many instances of my client up and will have my server running locally on my PC. On XP I typically ran more than my physical memory and reduced the allocated memory to each of my clients.

I moved to Vista64 and during the day run a 3.6GB memory Virtual client of XP Pro and many other stuff on Vista 64. Typically used memory is in the neighborhood of 5-6 GB constantly during the day.

But most people would be pressed to justify the jump from 2 GB to 4 GB let alone 8GB. Also the downside for most people that might overclock is that 2 sticks are much easier to overclock than 4 by far. Mine are stock 6400 and no attempt to overclock. The sweet spot for memory is still at 1GB modules and not 2GB modules that you need to get 8GB.

 

[Skrying]

For $160 I don't see the issue with someone getting 8GB of memory, hell if you buy memory these days for a new system you should get 4GB. Memory is SO cheap right now that people are easily justified by buying much more than they may need for awhile.

 

[Valzic]

Well it is cheap now, but they would have to be running a 64 bit operating system. Not everyone wants to run Vista 64 or a Linux distro.

Of course 4 months ago when I bout , it cost me 500 for the 8GB. are not price drops wonderful?

 

[Skrying]

Well it is cheap now, but they would have to be running a 64 bit operating system. Not everyone wants to run Vista 64 or a Linux distro.

Of course 4 months ago when I bout , it cost me 500 for the 8GB. are not price drops wonderful?

You can get 8GB for less than what I paid for my 2GB, so yeah I feel you a bit.

 

[Valzic]

Yes... When you monitor and participate in this crazy hardware race. You have to have a thick skin and expect that new whats-it you proudly bought will be dirt cheap a few months later. It just the price of making your own equipment.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Regardless of current need for 8GB, it would be wise to invest in the capability, would it not?

 

[Skrying]

Regardless of current need for 8GB, it would be wise to invest in the capability, would it not?

I personally don't see an issue with it, personally I doubt prices will get much lower than this.