Lazy developers

Dominik D

Regular
I propose a motion to penalize people calling developers lazy. I feel deeply offended when some random anon fanboys use this phrase to justify their beliefs. We've seen it with PS3 in 2006, it's haunting interwebs after Wii U launch, it's gonna return in a year or so with releases of PS4 and Xbox3. (and I guess it's gonna be xbots' turn to use it)

So yeah, I don't know - ban, rehab, tickets to Justin Bieber concert. Something!

Pretty please with a cherry on top?
 
Depends on the scale. Globally - sure. But just because World is coming to an end I'm not gonna skip on doing my dishes.
 
I saw this topic after a user who constantly flogged the "lazy devs" attitude had been placed on a temporary vacation from the forums. Let the record note that penalty was not influenced in any part by this thread.

Continue on with your partying until the world ends in December...
 
The guy's been spouting nothing but nonsense for weeks and his reasoning is all but incomprehensible (just look at his pet theories on how wii would be un-emulatable unless wuu could match exact same memory latencies, for example). I don't think anyone would be all that sad to see the temporary vacation being somewhat extended, tbh.
 
I find this thread lacking in effort and conviction. I expect the Anandforum version will be much better.

Seriously though a forum for discussion shouldn't have a prohibition on using a certain term just because it offends someone. If someone isn't being a useful contributing member and isn't adding to the discussion educate them, if that fails then remove them.
 
Seriously though a forum for discussion shouldn't have a prohibition on using a certain term just because it offends someone. If someone isn't being a useful contributing member and isn't adding to the discussion educate them, if that fails then remove them.

+1, exactly my thoughts.
 
I'm a dev and I don't care. Amusingly I even consider lazy to be a good thing for a dev. ;)
Now, don't hesitate to enlighten people when they are wrong, often people just say that to express their frustration of lack of attention to details.
 
Let's tar and feather those assholes! Starting with Dominik! :D

In my extremely limited experience (with an emphasis on extremely), it's not about being lazy. It's about a lack of resources and time. You don't think I wanted to implement feature x or completely fix bug y? I would love nothing more than to perfect my baby! :D Unfortunately, there are deadlines. There are budgets. There are priorities (sometimes set by outside parties). And eventually sacrifices have to be made (and no one is sadder to make those sacrifices than the developer).

So for me personally, I can understand why some people are hurt after reading "lazy developers". They just poured their heart and soul into that project! Those damn end-users are just too lazy to understand! ;)

Having said all that, we aren't banning the phrase "lazy developers". People are entitled to believe whatever they want as long as they can be civil about it and not ruin the discussion.
 
The complete refusal of a lot of devs to avoid some of the anti-patterns which make the PC versions of their games such nightmares annoys me ...

Take stuff like key remapping, the 5 minutes saved up front by adhoc hardcoding shit instead of universally using a (text file driven) remapping layer from the start is just wrong-headed laziness. When in doubt just copy Carmack ... time restraints are not an excuse for something like this unless you're trying to make an indie game in a day.
 
The complete refusal of a lot of devs to avoid some of the anti-patterns which make the PC versions of their games such nightmares annoys me ...

Take stuff like key remapping, the 5 minutes saved up front by adhoc hardcoding shit instead of universally using a (text file driven) remapping layer from the start is just wrong-headed laziness. When in doubt just copy Carmack ... time restraints are not an excuse for something like this unless you're trying to make an indie game in a day.

In most cases yes, but on occasion you will run into a dev that has no clue what the fuck he is doing wrt making a PC game. There was a PS3 port to PC not long ago that didn't even allow to change resolution because the devs were Japanese and had seemingly never even played a PC game.

That is an extreme example but it surely happens to a lesser extent in other studios.
 
That one was a very quick port done solely because people asked for it. When you engineer your game to work entirely on a single type of platform(Dark Souls ran on X360 and PS3) and then are asked well after the fact to port it to another, things can and often will go wrong.

DS is an unusual exception, and I don't think it should be mentioned here. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point, however?
 
The complete refusal of a lot of devs to avoid some of the anti-patterns which make the PC versions of their games such nightmares annoys me ...

Take stuff like key remapping, the 5 minutes saved up front by adhoc hardcoding shit instead of universally using a (text file driven) remapping layer from the start is just wrong-headed laziness. When in doubt just copy Carmack ... time restraints are not an excuse for something like this unless you're trying to make an indie game in a day.

If you have a major studio breathing down your neck to get shit down ASAP and you're working 14-18 hour days just to get it released on time, I'd say time restraints are an issue... In addition, there is also the possibility that they are outright told to skimp on that stuff when they do not want to. After all, many publishers and heads of dev companies can be rather clueless...
 
When it comes to features like key remapping they get omitted because they never get priority.
There are always 10 things to work on for every one that gets delivered, more often than not the difference between a good game and a mediocre one has more todo with how those items are prioritized by producers inside the developer and publisher.
 
But most of the time they aren't omitted, they are just implemented half-assed ... which costs more time than just doing it right. Just do it right once, copy paste it every project and buy a large whip to flay every junior who hard codes a key, problem solved.
 
But most of the time they aren't omitted, they are just implemented half-assed ... which costs more time than just doing it right. Just do it right once, copy paste it every project and buy a large whip to flay every junior who hard codes a key, problem solved.

You're missing my point, it isn't engineering that's the issue. Towards the end of a project to look at what's left and start cutting.
What happens is rather than cutting features, you end up cutting part of a lot of features they all end up compromised and the overall quality of the product suffers. Features get costed in man hours and people tray and shave everywhere they can.
What good game teams do is they cut major features as a whole, they realize that cutting 10 % of many features is much more harmful to the final product.
The problem is it's hard to do, because every major feature in a game is someone who matters sacred cow.

In one game I had production insist on adding a feature because it was "cool", I told them would take a month to do properly, rather than cutting some thing else to accommodate, cutting the time in the schedule to a week, then it taking 3 weeks to try and clean up the half asses implementation, cutting it at the last minute.

This type of development is unfortunately common, and it's because people are emotionally invested, good games are made when the people making decisions make good decisions early enough.

PC ports are a bit different the bulk of them are work for hire, usually on tight schedules and usually not paying very well.
 
A remapping UI is a feature ... the remapping layer should just be basic design and it's consistent use convention.

It would save you time and me aggrivation.
 
Been lucky not to end up in that situation when it came to gfx, I usually was able to cut features talking to my lead/project lead, and I agree it's much better to cut during dev rather than to rush/botch things at the last minute.
 
That one was a very quick port done solely because people asked for it. When you engineer your game to work entirely on a single type of platform(Dark Souls ran on X360 and PS3) and then are asked well after the fact to port it to another, things can and often will go wrong.

DS is an unusual exception, and I don't think it should be mentioned here. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point, however?

I think devs more and more don't have much experience even playing PC games, so they don't know what features they should implement. If you don't play fps on PC you wouldn't know how important FOV, hardware cursor etc. is to the experience. Otherwise why leave them out? I am assuming these things are not all that difficult to implement in the grand scheme of things.

I think we can all agree that most devs are the opposite of lazy.
 
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I think devs more and more don't have much experience even playing PC games, so they don't know what features they should implement. If you don't play fps on PC you wouldn't know how important FOV, hardware cursor etc. is to the experience. Otherwise why leave them out? I am assuming these things are not all that difficult to implement in the grand scheme of things.

I think we can all agree that most devs are the opposite of lazy.

Depends what you include in lazy, not learning about the standards in PC gaming can very well be qualified in laziness...
 
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