j Allard Speech A Joke(uknown source)

[cybamerc]

Acert93:

> Of the PCs *in use* in the US I would be willing to bet close to 70% are
> 1280x1024 capable.

I seriously doubt that.

> Since when would Sony/Nintendo supporting 1080p mean it would not
> work on lesser resolution devices???

Your argument is that most homes have a HD capable screen. At the very least this means a screen with a native resolution of 1280x720 or more. If you need to downscale then it's not HD.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yes I read the article. But there is more to reality than just that one article. More went on at GDC than what the biased article presents. I mean come on, the guy even exaggerates the PS2 sales rate He also gets the % of Xbox live users wrong. He also praises up Sony in the article while neglecting the fact one of the major selling points of the PS3 is HD movie playback.

Did you? Or are you basing all your comments on this one article?

Yes, I am basing my comments on this article, because this thread is about this article which is talking about developer opinions of MS's strategy, and not about current or projected HDTV penetration!

NO-ONE's SAYING HDTV SHOULDN'T BE SUPPORTED! Sheesh, I already said this! The article was referring to to Allard's sound-bite, that Xenon ushers in a new era of HD-Gaming, an era that is lost on most people.

Stay on target.

:? The topic isn't about should HDTV support be included or not. For that we want a thread "Should HDTV be a key focus of NextGen" or something similar. At least, the title and first few posts aren't about HDTV sales and uptake. Seems to have got derailed...

I personally think lack of HDTV support a bad idea. People that don't have HDTV now will get it eventually. But uptake will be fairly slow, certainly in Europe where there's no HD content to display. Even if future TV's have to be HD capable in the US, penetration is only as good as the rate new sets are sold. Widescreen has been around in the UK for years but uptake has been slow, mostly I think due to lack of widescreen broadcasts. Without anything to show on HDTV, why should I splash out on a £1500 TV when my existing TV is gonna display just as good pictures given the low-res format?

in 2003), and all TVs over ~27" will be REQUIRED to ship HD TV enabled in the next year or so. Read: Not optional, required. So I challenge you, and the articles, assumption that HD is lost on most people".

I'd say no more than 5-10% of Europe has an HDTV set. This'll grow to perhaps 20% in the next few years, maybe, if just because modern large screens are HD capable. Whatever the figures, there is no way 50% of sets are going to be HDTV at XB2's launch or within 5 years of it. That is, most people will not have HDTV sets.

As for monitors, I don't know how well a 1280x1024 screen will handle a 720p display, but I certainly know I'd rather play a console on a 32" widescreen TV in the comfort of my living room than on a 17"/19" monitor on my desk!

so I still not convinced that focusing on providing high resolution gameplay hurts the non-HD player.

Has anyone said HDTV hurts non-HD users? All that's been said (certainly in regards the article) is that it's not a major plus point.

If you live in the US, where Xbox is strongest and is MS core audiance, you will know HDTV will have a very profound impact over the next 5 years.

Which is how the article ended, suggesting XB2 will again be a very American console, appealing to an American mindset and not having the influence in the rest of the world...

Allard knows that Microsoft's next-generation console must appeal to everyone if it is to be successful, but as one developer commented last night, "Xbox is so busy trying to look cool to American teenage boys that it looks like they might forget about everyone else - again."

If Xenon is to appeal to everyone, as Allard knows it needs to, what do you think would be the key point or two to identify the qualities of the platform? Creation of realistic worlds? Versatile power? Diverse gaming? HD capable? I don't see HD gaming as appealing to my sister or mum, where EyeToy and Revolution might. HD gaming doesn't appeal to the many people like me who don't own an HD set and aren't likely to upgrade within a few years, whereas realistic worlds and versatile power would. Trying to push Xenon on the back of HD quality isn't the most effective approach in my opinion, in which I agree with article. Whether this concept of HD-Era pentrates into Xenon's mainstream marketting is yet to be seen.

 

[one]

IMO HD is a bare minimum for the next-gen consoles. PS3 and Revolution will support HD too. Allard should have presented something which can differentiate Xbox2 from others, but only with the Xbox Live it's not appealing enough.

 

[Magnum PI]

But I'm NOT arguing that HDTV sets are going to wipe out good old CRTs anytime soon.

you can buy a CRT with HDTV capability.
CRT is not dead, its picture quality is superior to both LCD and plasma, and it is not plaggued with their issues, except it is bulky and not as aesthetic..

 

[hey69]

here in europe (belgium) I never saw a HDTV CRT for sale in the shops.
good old pal 480I everywhere.
most lcd's and plasmas sold, have standart SCART and 15pVGA conector, does a TV need component input to accept 1280x1024 for example? or can that signal go trough RGB scart?

 

[Ty]

you can buy a CRT with HDTV capability.

Yep, before I bought my plasma, I was looking at the best consumer CRT out there, the Sony 960. But we were actually talking about the base of TV sets already in homes (not what you could buy in a store) and how Plasmas & LCDs are NOT going to replace those any time soon.

CRT is not dead,

Didn't say it was dead. In fact I explictly stated otherwise.

its picture quality is superior to both LCD and plasma,

In a post I made (in another topic - I believe the GT4 one), I made a very broad statement that said the same, that generally CRTs have the best PQ.

and it is not plaggued with their issues, except it is bulky and not as aesthetic..

Now here is where you are not quite right. It's about tradeoffs. CRTs DO have some very specific ones. For instance, what if you need/want a 16x9 screen larger than 36"? You won't readily find one. What if you perfect geometry? You certainly won't ever find that in a CRT. What about pincushioning? Barrel Distortion? Etc. The other technologies (speaking about LCD and Plasma here) have made some tremendous strides and will probably continue to do so as they have more headroom (and desire by companies) to grow. So though I don't believe CRTs are "dead" as far as consumers go, they are dead in terms of technology.

 

[Ooh-videogames]

The three console manufacturers just need to advertise the consoles ability to deliver a much sharper image through HDTV,s and PC monitors. If I was Nintendo, Sony, and MS I would have all my kiosk setups using (20")PC monitors. With caption on the cabinet explaining the benefits of using a PC monitor or HDTV over a standard TV.

 

[London Geezer]

The three console manufacturers just need to advertise the consoles ability to deliver a much sharper image through HDTV,s and PC monitors. If I was Nintendo, Sony, and MS I would have all my kiosk setups using (20")PC monitors. With caption on the cabinet explaining the benefits of using a PC monitor or HDTV over a standard TV.

Instead they choose to advertise what the other 98% of the people out there really care about, the games. Oh und ze bigz poligonz numberz. Call'em stupid...

 

[Geeforcer]

LOL, slightly OT. I was in Sears the other day. They had 12-15 HD sets, ranging from $1 to 12 thousand. All of them were showing grainy Simpsions which undoubtedly came from poor over the air analog receiver and then was split 20 times. Needless to say, it looked horrible. Why for the love of all that’s holy would you do something like that when you are tying to sell image quality?

 

[PC-Engine]

LOL, slightly OT. I was in Sears the other day. They had 12-15 HD sets, ranging from $1 to 12 thousand. All of them were showing grainy Simpsions which undoubtedly came from poor over the air analog receiver and then was split 20 times. Needless to say, it looked horrible. Why for the love of all that’s holy would you do something like that when you are tying to sell image quality?

How would YOU do it?

 

[DeathKnight]

Places like Best Buy and Circuit City pull HD channels from what is probably satellite. They also likely use higher quality distribution boxes.

 

[Geeforcer]

LOL, slightly OT. I was in Sears the other day. They had 12-15 HD sets, ranging from $1 to 12 thousand. All of them were showing grainy Simpsions which undoubtedly came from poor over the air analog receiver and then was split 20 times. Needless to say, it looked horrible. Why for the love of all that’s holy would you do something like that when you are tying to sell image quality?

How would YOU do it?

Hook then up to high-quality DVD players gathering dust across the isle.

 

[PC-Engine]

LOL, slightly OT. I was in Sears the other day. They had 12-15 HD sets, ranging from $1 to 12 thousand. All of them were showing grainy Simpsions which undoubtedly came from poor over the air analog receiver and then was split 20 times. Needless to say, it looked horrible. Why for the love of all that’s holy would you do something like that when you are tying to sell image quality?

How would YOU do it?

Hook then up to high-quality DVD players gathering dust across the isle.

And anybody can just walk down the isle and eject/steal the DVDs...not to mention DVDs aren't HD.

 

[jvd]

some best buys have 1 dvd player hidden and then pipe out the feed across all the other hdtvs .. looks pretty good and better than a normal signal .

 

[Johnny Awesome]

HD gaming and online gaming are the right things to push at the beginning of Xenon's lifecycle. Allard is trying to sell hardcore gamers and developers on Xenon. Even though it's GDC, he's not even really trying to sell developers. He's trying to sell publishers, since they will be making all of the platform decisions anyway.

His message is simple: "Hey hardcore gamers, look at all the cool HD and online stuff we have. Hey publishers, look at the drool coming from the hardcore crowd. See? I told you we could sell 5 million of these right way. Now go whip those developers into making Xenon games."

Also, you have to consider that Sony is going to be pushing HD really hard. Now MS can say that they were pushing it first and that they were the "leaders".

 

[jvd]

aye if priced right and with a good launch line up i can see xenon hitting 10 million in its first year easy . It wont have competition for awhile and tis graphics will blow everything else out of the water when its launched

 

[cthellis42]

cthellis42, not you specifically (you are fairly rational), but this just totally confuses the entire "CELL World" arguement. I bring this up because this article praises Sony and chastises MS.

Considering in this thread I've talked about NOTHING but monitors... Not any company's business plans, not their expectations for HD next generation... I was simply responding to those who think that people will suddenly cry for joy and hook up their consoles (whoever's they are. Frankly, I hope all of them CAN support monitors, but that's just for me. ) up to monitors are assuming too much.

I know of not ONE person--all gamers--who have or really WANT to hook up their console to a monitor. And not because of technical reasons, but simply because of what they want the console for--to sit, laid-back, and play casual games on their TV. Why the TV? Because that's where all the confortable seating is for TV watching. I know more people who've gone the other way and use their TV for computer use instead.

Few people would would to hook it up to their existing computer stations (where their only--or best--monitor is) because it's a completely different feeling, and it's personal space. Most people frequently use their consoles for communal gaming with other friends, and you typically can't put one or more friends comfortably around one's computers station.

So what's left over...? Spare monitors could certainly be used, but while they have the resolution what they don't have is the screen space. So what does that mean? Sitting right up next to the monitor rather than laid-back play from across the room, and pretty much fragging multiplayer right there. You're similarly not going to seat too many people in front of a screen that small, and you want to imagine split-screening a game on one of them...?

ALL the console's HD endeavors will depend almost entirely on HDTV proliferation. Until the environments themselves and the public's attitudes about it--not just the machines--go through a longer convergence phase than they have to date.

 

[cybamerc]

hey69:

> here in europe (belgium) I never saw a HDTV CRT for sale in the shops.

JVC has a couple of models.

> does a TV need component input to accept 1280x1024 for example? or
> can that signal go trough RGB scart?

Component, VGA or DVI/HDMI.

 

[Blazkowicz]

I guess most people will still use the supplied composite RCA cable, and even if they have a HDTV, they won't bother buying the official $40 HDTV component cable nor an $10 unofficial one, or they won't even know that their LCD TV is HDTV ready.

What a shame, in the 8/16 bits era (at least in my country) we were given RGB scart, but last gen and current gen (except dreamcast) we got RCA crap. A really tiny majority of ppl buy S-Video or RGB (and now YUV, though I don't understand why it would be better than RGB). Not even me! (consoles are for monkey ball and mario party, PC are for real games and real image quality - don't be offended that's just my way of seeing it ^^)