Is Wii bad for the games industry...?

Jon Brittan

Newcomer
First of all, let me start by stating that this is not an attack on the Wii, merely my musings on its possible effect on the games markets in the near future and is intended to prompt discussion rather than any form of "console competition".

Right, with that out of the way, onwards...

While discussing games development with some colleagues last week it struck me that the Wii, for all its current expansion of the gaming market, may actually be harmful for the development of the games market in the short to mid term.
There is no doubt, in any regard, that the Wii as a system has expanded the current games market to a very noticeable degree, however this was already an expanding market, simply not at that rate.

To someone either in the industry or with any interest in the future of the industry it is important not only to see the market expand, but to see it both develop and also expand in a sustainable manner.
My fear with the Wii is that we have made a short term gain which could eventually lead to a slightly longer to at least mid term loss in terms of both the expansion and development of the market.

The games industry has been expanding in a near linear fashion, with the core of the industry being made up of "hardcore" games and a regular selection of more niche or casual games being available for what are, at their heart, pure (in the traditional sense) gaming machines. With each generation of consoles a number of new users joining the market, whether it be for a Grand Theft Auto, a Guitar Hero or a Gears of War, usually they enter the market and will stick with it into the coming generations as their interest in "core" gaming grows, this is demonstrable through the continuing, growing fan-bases of core franchises.

With the arrival of Wii and "mainstream casual" gaming we have seen a very rapid expansion of the market, with many people who would otherwise have not bought into the console market suddenly introduced and, almost un-doubtably, a number of the would-be new entrants caught up with "Wii fever" and using that as their entry to gaming instead of the "traditional" design consoles in 360 or PS3.
In terms of initial market numbers this is a good thing, the problem is (and this is where this becomes very much my opinion) the majority (only?) of the good games on Wii still fall into the "traditional" mould, Mario Galaxy, Zelda : TWP etc. While the games that appeal most to the "casual" gamers, like Wii Sports (admittedly free) and WiiFit are not, in my opinion, retained value games, these are not franchises where there is a great value in upgrading to Wii Sports 2 or WiiFitter and, given that traditionally new entrants to the games console market tend to buy fewer games than established gamers, it is likely these will be the only titles played by these new entrants to the games market. While some will pick up a Mario, a Zelda or a Metroid to flesh out their collection, is there not a very real danger that, as has happened in other "fad" markets in the past, those who stick to WiiSports and WiiFit may feel that £240 (Wii console + WiiFit at current UK prices) was not good value for money in the end if that is all they get out of it and will not buy in to the next generation of consoles?
Now admittedly, a lot of these people were not likely to enter this round of consoles anyway, but there is a possibility that some of these people would otherwise have bought a "traditional" console and started to enter the core gaming market. It is possible that we end up with people feeling disenfranchised by the gaming market because they bought into casual gaming rather than buying into core gaming.

Further to this, simply look at the current games development market/schedule. Wii has (alongside some admittedly good titles), unfortunately and due to its hardware sales success, seemingly drawn a large number of publishers into the "me too" market and there is a far greater than usual volume of titles clearly developed for not much reason other than to try and sell into the huge Wii installed base. Anything which motivates and seemingly does nothing to deter the development of games which are only ever going to make consumers wonder why they spend money on games is certainly detrimental the longevity, success and image of the industry.

As this is getting quite long now I'll allow other people to post their thoughts.
I'll take this chance simply to remind you that these are merely my musings and stand for nothing more than my thoughts on how this *may* effect the market and is also not necessarily a good reflection on even my own personal thought on Wii...
I appreciate some, if not all of you, may feel I'm completely wrong, but a structured argument on why Wii can be nothing but good for the industry is far more constructive than "you're a fool".

:)
 
First of all, let me start by stating that this is not an attack on the Wii, merely my musings on its possible effect on the games markets in the near future and is intended to prompt discussion rather than any form of "console competition"...
:)

I've heard this argument before. Just replace "Wii" with "PSone". :LOL:
 
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I've heard this argument before. Just replace "Wii" with "PSone". :LOL:

I'm not sure the quote was necessary, make's a one line reply quite long ;)

The difference as I see it is that, although Sony's Playstation was a break from the Nintendo/Sega standard, the core focus of Playstation was still very similar to those the consoles offered by those manufacturers at the time, the same as Xbox when Microsoft entered the market. There may have been some difference in Lara Croft to Mario or Sonic, but the core focus was the same and you still got a similar, if not identical, experience from PS1 as you did from either of the other consoles.

Wii on the other hand is dragging people into the "gaming" market without necessarily showing them at any point what the real gaming market is.
As I said, there will be some gamers it does bring into the fold, but if the key focus is what may ultimately turn out to be passive interest gaming (WiiFit etc are likely to have a limited shelf-life in most environments) then there's a danger it alienates people who may have actually been interested in gaming without ever showing them the real console gaming world...
 
Why would the wii be bad for the industry? Its obvious the wii isnt the problem, its quite a capable system in every way (just not as capable as other systems in some area's). What is harming the industry, or maybe better said the more ''hardcore'' gamer is crappy devs/greedy management that uses the wii as their dumpster to release their bucketloads of crap to cash in quick. Its painfull to see how a wiiware game like winds @ 10 dollar and 40mb is better than 95% of the games released by 3rd party devs on the wii. And than we are not talking about better in a small margin...

According to nintendo the majority of people that buy the wii are older ''hardcore'' gamers btw.

The average Wii gamer is a hardcore gamer, Nintendo of America's Cammie Dunaway told the Electronic Gaming Summit today.

Seventy-nine percent of Wii gamers are male, most older than 18 with an income of $50,000 or more and more than half game for five or more hours a week, Dunaway said.
http://kotaku.com/5010227/nintendo-wii-gamers-are-hardcore-gamers
 
The problem is that you assume the Wii is not the "real gaming market".

I think many here would disagree. The Wii is just as much the "real gaming market" as the PS3 or XBox 360. Sure, it is not my thing. However, I wouldn't claim someone is not a "real gamer" just because they have a Wii. I personally do not think it will have any negative effect on the current type of large blockbuster games that get released. There is a reason games like GTA and Halo have some of the largest single week release records out of ANY entertainment media.

As long as there is money to be made, someone will be there to make it. Because of that, the big games will not go away any time soon.
 
Why would the wii be bad for the industry? Its obvious the wii isnt the problem, its quite a capable system in every way (just not as capable as other systems in some area's). What is harming the industry, or maybe better said the more ''hardcore'' gamer is crappy devs/greedy management that uses the wii as their dumpster to release their bucketloads of crap to cash in quick. Its painfull to see how a wiiware game like winds @ 10 dollar and 40mb is better than 95% of the games released by 3rd party devs on the wii. And than we are not talking about better in a small margin...

According to nintendo the majority of people that buy the wii are older ''hardcore'' gamers btw.


http://kotaku.com/5010227/nintendo-wii-gamers-are-hardcore-gamers

The wii can harm the industry because while other consoles take 5 steps forward the wii is just an outdated cheap hardware with some dumbed down controlers that any one can shake around from a 3 years old to an 80 years old, and if the wii continues to be such a commercial success its very likely that the other brands eventually chose to go in the same direction wich means all games will be dumbed down and the gaming will be held back by crappy hardware.
 
According to nintendo the majority of people that buy the wii are older ''hardcore'' gamers btw.
I wish they'd get their story straight! How can they be mostly hardcore gamers yet opening up to new gamers, selling 80% to lone guys and yet being the family console? I dare say this is selective stats for different audiences, and plenty of purchases/owners/users aren't 'hardcore' and don't have lots of prior console/gaming experience.

I do also wonder why the Wii attracts so many 'is teh Wii the doomzorz of the gaming world?' threads/posts? PS2 and PS1 had truckloads of trash, but that didn't see the end of quality gaming. As long as there's still a market for (quality) 'hardcore' titles (you might want to ask Bungie, Epic, EA Sports, producers of Sony's million+ seller exclusives, etc.) then that market will be served. Does anyone think that all those companies will throw in the towel and produce cheap trash titles to earn a 'quick buck' rather than produce accomplished works for a 'slow but much bigger bag of bucks'?
 
Why would the wii be bad for the industry? Its obvious the wii isnt the problem, its quite a capable system in every way (just not as capable as other systems in some area's). What is harming the industry, or maybe better said the more ''hardcore'' gamer is crappy devs/greedy management that uses the wii as their dumpster to release their bucketloads of crap to cash in quick. Its painfull to see how a wiiware game like winds @ 10 dollar and 40mb is better than 95% of the games released by 3rd party devs on the wii. And than we are not talking about better in a small margin...

According to nintendo the majority of people that buy the wii are older ''hardcore'' gamers btw.


http://kotaku.com/5010227/nintendo-wii-gamers-are-hardcore-gamers

If this is true, why aren't they buying the hardcore games?

No More Heroes did pretty pitifully.

The top selling games for the Wii include,

Wii Play, Mario Party, Mario & Sonic at the Olympics, Big Brain Academy and Wii Fit. A little further down the list are things like Link's Crossbow Training and Carnival Games.

By comparison, there aren't any casual games on the PS3 list (or many games for that matter) and none on the 360 until you get to Uno (27th).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

I'm sure Nintendo doesn't want the image of the Wii to be girls and the elderly.
 
I do also wonder why the Wii attracts so many 'is teh Wii the doomzorz of the gaming world?' threads/posts? PS2 and PS1 had truckloads of trash, but that didn't see the end of quality gaming. As long as there's still a market for (quality) 'hardcore' titles (you might want to ask Bungie, Epic, EA Sports, producers of Sony's million+ seller exclusives, etc.) then that market will be served. Does anyone think that all those companies will throw in the towel and produce cheap trash titles to earn a 'quick buck' rather than produce accomplished works for a 'slow but much bigger bag of bucks'?

I don't necessarily think the Wii is teh doomzorz, but it sure doesn't seem to me that the Wii has anywhere close to the ratio of quality:shovelware that the PS1 and PS2 had.

IMHO, there seems to be a lot of shovelware crap on the Wii.
 
I do also wonder why the Wii attracts so many 'is teh Wii the doomzorz of the gaming world?' threads/posts?

Can I just clarify, following this and a couple of other posts, in no way am I suggesting that the Wii is or will be detrimental to the existence of the gaming market, simply that it may be detrimental to the mid-term expansion of the market. Essentially, simply, that a market that has been steadily growing and has suddenly expanded ahead of all (recent) previous gains, may slump at the end of this generation to a point (probably still ahead of now but) lower than it could have expected to be otherwise...

Again, I simply want to prompt discussion, but see that the Wii by virtue of its marketing focus and the large volume of shovelware (also on other consoles, but where AAA titles are far more widely and openly marketed) may cause some new adopters to feel disenfranchised with gaming despite possibly not having even really experienced what many of us would consider "gaming" anyway.
 
Can I just clarify, following this and a couple of other posts, in no way am I suggesting that the Wii is or will be detrimental to the existence of the gaming market, simply that it may be detrimental to the mid-term expansion of the market. Essentially, simply, that a market that has been steadily growing and has suddenly expanded ahead of all (recent) previous gains, may slump at the end of this generation to a point (probably still ahead of now but) lower than it could have expected to be otherwise...
XB360 and PS3 still exist, and are selling about as fast as the old PS2 did, right? Combined they're also a larger market than Wii. The existing traditional market isn't going anywhere. I don't see why Wii's rapid growth should be expected to impact the 'other' market.
...may cause some new adopters to feel disenfranchised with gaming despite possibly not having even really experienced what many of us would consider "gaming" anyway.
As long as there are some AAA titles on Wii, they'll be served as well as their buying habits. It was possible to buy nowt but trash on precious PSes too! And I'm sure a lot of Wii gamers will in turn become more open to trying PS360. Where once upon a time the idea of moving a character around a TV world may have held no appeal, now they've experienced that and feel comfortable with it, the chance to try controlling different, better looking characters with a different controller may be an option. Or not. But I can see the 'old' market remaining as large as last gen, with an additional 'casual' market, and developers splitting their resources where they see fit.
 
The wii can harm the industry because while other consoles take 5 steps forward the wii is just an outdated cheap hardware with some dumbed down controlers that any one can shake around from a 3 years old to an 80 years old, and if the wii continues to be such a commercial success its very likely that the other brands eventually chose to go in the same direction wich means all games will be dumbed down and the gaming will be held back by crappy hardware.

I think that sounds pretty narrowminded and full of opinions rather than facts. First of all you seem to assume to games can only go forward if there is more power. I dont think that is true. Alot of the more unique projects arnt based on power that much. Ofcourse, if you think advancement in games means you will be playing #12325 of franchise X with even more shinier gfx be my guest but the fact is that more power doesnt equal better games. I even dare to argue the opposite. Alot of the next gen games put the majority of their focus on the gfx forgetting there should actually be a game behind the gfx.

Also ''thumbed down controlls''? ever touched the wii controlle? because its not thumbed down at all. It offers all the buttons you'd have on a standard controller only 1 analoge stick less. Though the layout indeed isnt suited for a genres. Than again it works alot better for some than a standard controller will ever do.

I do feel for you if you think the wii is a threat just because of the ''crappy'' hardware. The past 20 years of gaming must have been a total hell for you!

If this is true, why aren't they buying the hardcore games?

No More Heroes did pretty pitifully.

No it didnt. It did alot better than Suda intitially expected! Also its not really fair to take no more heroes as a example as it isnt a mass market type of game, its aimed at a smaller group.

Also, how much did killer 7 sold on the ps2? it did pretty crap (worse than nmh did I believe, and that on a 100million userbase) on the so called hardcore ps2. Same goes for okami. That failed on the ''hardcore'' ps2 but I bet it will do pretty good on Wii.

Wii Play, Mario Party, Mario & Sonic at the Olympics, Big Brain Academy and Wii Fit. A little further down the list are things like Link's Crossbow Training and Carnival Games.

Scrap wii play as its sold because of the controller. Mario party always sold pretty decent because its fun to play with friends and no shit mario & sonic sells so good because it has Mario, sonic and the olympics in it which all 3 are pretty big.

Also I wonder why you ''forget'' to mention mario galaxy, zelda, mariokart, re4 wii (1m isnt bad for a game released for like the 5th time), guitar hero, super smash bros etc. I'm sorry, but there are plenty of real games in the top list as you can see.

By comparison, there aren't any casual games on the PS3 list (or many games for that matter) and none on the 360 until you get to Uno (27th).

Maybe because they lack those games pretty much? If you dont have them you cant sell them. Doesnt mean the customers dont want it. Ps2 sold craploads of casual license games too, this is a fairly big factor for big hardware sales I think.

I don't necessarily think the Wii is teh doomzorz, but it sure doesn't seem to me that the Wii has anywhere close to the ratio of quality:shovelware that the PS1 and PS2 had.

IMHO, there seems to be a lot of shovelware crap on the Wii.


There is without a doubt. But dont forget the 1st year of ps2 was pretty crap too. Now count in devs actually though ps2 was going to sell well and take into account that not too long ago everybody though wii was going to fail and you might have a reason why there still is a lack of good wii games. Or maybe I am wrong and we wont see a increase in good wii games over time.
 
Also I wonder why you ''forget'' to mention mario galaxy, zelda, mariokart, re4 wii (1m isnt bad for a game released for like the 5th time), guitar hero, super smash bros etc. I'm sorry, but there are plenty of real games in the top list as you can see.

Maybe because they lack those games pretty much? If you dont have them you cant sell them. Doesnt mean the customers dont want it. Ps2 sold craploads of casual license games too, this is a fairly big factor for big hardware sales I think.

I left those out because I was only talking about casual games. I wasn't talking about games that appeal to hardcore gamers.

My point there was that this vast number of casual games don't exist as big sellers on the other platform.

Sure, there are some good hardcore games on the Wii; just not many. I enjoyed Mario Galaxy as much as any game ever. After I beat it, my Wii hasn't been used. Instead, I've been playing Burnout Paradise, Bioshock, and GTA4 (and my guilty pleasure of Bladestorm).

There is without a doubt. But dont forget the 1st year of ps2 was pretty crap too. Now count in devs actually though ps2 was going to sell well and take into account that not too long ago everybody though wii was going to fail and you might have a reason why there still is a lack of good wii games. Or maybe I am wrong and we wont see a increase in good wii games over time.

I wouldn't think we'll see a surge in good Wii games. Historically, the driver of quality games on Nintendo platforms has been Nintendo (okay, and Square :) ). They seem content with focusing energy on Brain Age / Nintendogs / Wii Fit games with a sporadic Mario game.
 
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I left those out because I was only talking about casual games. I wasn't talking about games that appeal to hardcore gamers.

My point there was that this vast number of casual games don't exist as big sellers on the other platform.

Sure, there are some good hardcore games on the Wii; just not many. I enjoyed Mario Galaxy as much as any game ever. After I beat it, my Wii hasn't been used. Instead, I've been playing Burnout Paradise, Bioshock, and GTA4 (and my guilty pleasure of Bladestorm).



I wouldn't think we'll see a surge in good Wii games. Historically, the driver of quality games on Nintendo platforms has been Nintendo (okay, and Square :) ). They seem content with focusing energy on Brain Age / Nintendogs / Wii Fit games with a sporadic Mario game.

You must be kidding! :rolleyes: All I've been hearing is dev shifting to wii...
http://www.games.net/blog/35114/a-wii-shift-in-third-pary-development/
BTW, google it for more links...

Of course, we haven't seen the result of that just yet.

[edit] post was/got deleted
 
I don't think the Wii is going to hurt the industry in the long term, its expanded the bounds of the flash gamer/solitaire playing crowd. It's going to attract some money, but its pretty obvious that games like Halo and GTA can still make a few bucks.


But come on, calling people that play 5 hours a week hardcore? I bet my mother plays that much freecell.
 
Ok, more constructively:

I dislike the "image" attached to the Wii and the people that play it. Undoubtedly it has expanded the industry to new heights (and new gamers) though, so other than personal dislike of a "low-tech, sd console" I'd have to say it's good for the industry.
 
I left those out because I was only talking about casual games. I wasn't talking about games that appeal to hardcore gamers.

Since when are mario and mariokart hardcore games? Re isnt hardcore either. hardcore doesnt even exist, all the big franchise are aimed at the casual gamer, otherwise they wouldnt be such big franchise to begin with. For example, gta is considerd hardcore. But how hardcore is this game really? not at all, nothing compared to the old hardcore games where you had like 3 lives to complete a impossible game with no saves. That is hardcore.

My point there was that this vast number of casual games don't exist as big sellers on the other platform.

Soooo?

I wouldn't think we'll see a surge in good Wii games. Historically, the driver of quality games on Nintendo platforms has been Nintendo (okay, and Square ). They seem content with focusing energy on Brain Age / Nintendogs / Wii Fit games with a sporadic Mario game.

You missed the nes and especially the snes era? So much 3rd party goodness came out on that platform, nintendo alone had hardly anything to do with that. It wasnt untill the GC that nintendo really became a big supplier for their platform compared to 3rd party games.

Also, nintendo bought the rights to that horror series, I do think they see there is a lack of those kind of games. I do agree that they might shifted their focus to the BT kind of games for a while but I do think they realised they cant afford slacking off on the games that always, and probably always will give them good results.
 
You must be kidding! :rolleyes: All I've been hearing is dev shifting to wii...
http://www.games.net/blog/35114/a-wii-shift-in-third-pary-development/
BTW, google it for more links...

Of course, we haven't seen the result of that just yet.

[edit] post was/got deleted

Still, I wonder how many will be Assassin's Creed type games and how many will be Battle of the Bands type games.

I've got nothing against the Wii. It was the first of the "next gen" consoles I owned. It just hasn't done a lot to keep my interest lately, and therefore I've been spending my gaming money on 360 and PS3 games (mostly 360).

I have lots more VC games than I do Wii games.
 
Soooo?

You missed the nes and especially the snes era? So much 3rd party goodness came out on that platform, nintendo alone had hardly anything to do with that. It wasnt untill the GC that nintendo really became a big supplier for their platform compared to 3rd party games.

And those developers seemed to abandon the Nintendo ship at the N64 generation. Since the N64, the vast majority of great games have been 1st or 2nd party Nintendo games.

I do agree that they might shifted their focus to the BT kind of games for a while but I do think they realised they cant afford slacking off on the games that always, and probably always will give them good results.

That's exactly the point I was making when I listed the casual games.
 
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