Is Race Real? - Fantastic CNN Article

[Natoma]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/07/11/nyt.kristof/index.html

Some quotes:

"There's no genetic basis for any kind of rigid ethnic or racial classification at all," said Bryan Sykes, the Oxford geneticist and author of "The Seven Daughters of Eve." "I'm always asked is there Greek DNA or an Italian gene, but, of course, there isn't. . . . We're very closely related."

Jews are more likely to carry mutations for Tay-Sachs, Africans for sickle cell anemia. It's hard to argue that ethnicity is an empty concept when one gene mutation for an iron storage disease, hemochromatosis, affects fewer than 1 percent of Armenians but 8 percent of Norwegians.

On the other hand, genetic markers associated with Africans can turn up in people who look entirely white. Indians and Pakistanis may have dark skin, but genetic markers show that they are Caucasians.

Another complication is that African-Americans are, on average, about 17 percent white: they have mitochondria (maternally inherited) that are African, but they often have European Y chromosomes. In other words, white men raped or seduced their maternal ancestors.

"There are meaningful distinctions among groups that may have implications for disease susceptibility," said Harry Ostrer, a genetics expert at the New York University School of Medicine. "The right-wing version of this is `The Bell Curve,' and that's pseudoscience — that's not real. But there can be a middle ground between left-wing political correctness and right-wing meanness."

 

[DemoCoder]

You can see a person's culture more strongly than their "race". Just compare a first generation American to their immigrant parents. They might look the same, but are decidely different. I used to date a girl from Cote d'Ivoire. She was completely unlike African Americans in everyway, although she looked black. She actually actively disliked American black culture, thought they lacked a work ethic and were too defeatist, sensitive, and whiny given their relative level of wealth compared to the abject poverty you will find in Africa.

 

[jvd]

I never really think of race . For me its pride. Where my family comes from (italy) is extremly important for me. Its my family history. To me everything that has come before is what makes me , me . So I hold it in the highest esteem. Esp since i grew up with storys of it from my father and then I started to spend time there. Race is silly because the diffrences aren't in the skin but where you come from.

 

[kyleb]

"There's no genetic basis for any kind of rigid ethnic or racial classification at all... Indians and Pakistanis may have dark skin, but genetic markers show that they are Caucasians.

what kind of doubletalck crap is that? :?

 

[RussSchultz]

Uuuh, exactly what it says.

Regardless of the color of their skin, people from the indian subcontinent appear to have the same genetic markers as caucasians, and not the same as african decendants.

I'm not sure why anybody's getting excited about this. Its not like all the rednecks are going to suddenly say "hey, wait! We're all the same race!"

They's white, and them's not.

 

[jvd]

All i can picture is mr bean from rat race saying "its a race" , " Pasta is good , carbohydrates are good" haha

 

[kyleb]

Uuuh, exactly what it says.

Regardless of the color of their skin, people from the indian subcontinent appear to have the same genetic markers as caucasians, and not the same as african decendants.

so that would be a some sort of "rigid ethnic or racial classification" he is reffering too. i think you are just so accustomed to doubletalk that it slips right by you Russ.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

Agreed, great article. I presume any advantages being given to "minority" students in college admissions processes will immediately and unconditionally stop, and all discussions and arguments over "diversity" will cease, since genetically we are all the same.

 

[Natoma]

Agreed, great article. I presume any advantages being given to "minority" students in college admissions processes will immediately and unconditionally stop, and all discussions and arguments over "diversity" will cease, since genetically we are all the same.

That's another thread you missed it seems. I stated that indeed, racial preferences would be best removed in favor of economic preferences, because those economic preferences address the needs of everyone who is capable, but unable to attend certain schools due to their lack of funds/resources.

The 20th century was one of a racial divide. The 21st will no doubt be one of an economic divide.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

That's another thread you missed it seems. I stated that indeed, racial preferences would be best removed in favor of economic preferences, because those economic preferences address the needs of everyone who is capable, but unable to attend certain schools due to their lack of funds/resources.

The 20th century was one of a racial divide. The 21st will no doubt be one of an economic divide.

Erm... why does you agreeing with me equal me "missing" a thread? Am I not allowed to make a statement, no strings attached? Glad you agree with it.

 

[Natoma]

Erm... why does you agreeing with me equal me "missing" a thread? Am I not allowed to make a statement, no strings attached? Glad you agree with it.

Because I addressed that in another thread. I believe the one that Joe DeFuria created wrt the Michigan case the Supreme Court ruled on a couple of weeks ago. I just get tired of repeating myself sometimes.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

I'm sorry, I'm not a psychic.

 

[Legion]

"There's no genetic basis for any kind of rigid ethnic or racial classification at all... Indians and Pakistanis may have dark skin, but genetic markers show that they are Caucasians.

what kind of doubletalck crap is that? :?

whoa...according to whom? what genetic markers?

 

[RussSchultz]

Uuuh, exactly what it says.

Regardless of the color of their skin, people from the indian subcontinent appear to have the same genetic markers as caucasians, and not the same as african decendants.

so that would be a some sort of "rigid ethnic or racial classification" he is reffering too. i think you are just so accustomed to doubletalk that it slips right by you Russ.

No, not at all.

Their findings show that people with obvious physical similarities that you would expect to show up as common genetic markers (if race was a genetic thing) do not, which tends to discredit the idea that you can group people together into races based on genetics. You can't point to a set of genes and say "look, here, its a black person" whereas you could with an ape or chimpanzee.

 

[kyleb]

whoa...according to whom? what genetic markers?

according to half of the authors double talk. i don't know specifically what genetic markers as i am no geneticist; i am speaking on the grounds of simple logic here. the man says that Indians and Pakistanis are genetically part of the Caucasian race; hence he just claimed racial classification based on genetic information after claiming there is no basis for such things. it seems he likes to have his cake and eat it too.

and Russ, sure the genetic difference between two species is more profound than that of a race/breed or strain, and separate species do not intermix genetically while variations of the same species do; that is all straight out of middle school science class if i recall correctly. however, that is beside the point i originally made and which i clarified to Legion above.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

You can't point to a set of genes and say "look, here, its a black person" whereas you could with an ape or chimpanzee.

Sure you could, were you to be knowledgeable enough about the human genome. I think the point of the article is that the differences in genes which allowed you to point and say "here's a black person" are less significant than the typical person to person genetic differences within what we consider to be one "race."

It's not that reliable markers don't exist (they surely do, otherwise there would be no external visible differences among races), just that they are insignificant when viewed from a viewpoint of the human species as a whole. It's trying to say that being "black" or "white" or "malay" is less of a difference genetically than being "tall" or "short" or "fat."

I personally feel that's a message worth spreading.

 

[Kyyla]

Yep, I think that's the point exactly. The differences between individuals outweigh those between so called "races".

 

[Don't Ask]

The 20th century was one of a racial divide. The 21st will no doubt be one of an economic divide

LOL, you really think that people will let that happen? The 20th century was totally racialy AND economicly divided and the 21st aint gonna change that just because of new laws or some pointless scientific finding. The time can change all it wants to but the people never will. The animalistic instinct to contend with everything different is still deep routed in our cerebrals which will also never change. The only part of it that will is the fact that we can use our brain "power" to come up with a reason to hate and always find new reasons when the old ones get worn out.

Even if we could somehow get a dog to understand that somewhere down the line he is related to fluffy (a cat), he would still want to chase it.

In a sense, what we're doing is called survival of the fittest, even if you claim otherwise, it's in everyone.

 

[P4-Fan]

It's trying to say that being "black" or "white" or "malay" is less of a difference genetically than being "tall" or "short" or "fat."

I personally feel that's a message worth spreading.

Well. I'm glad I can continue to be racially prejudiced when it comes short and fat....

 

[Sxotty]

First, I don't understand why anyone cares this is common knowledge and has been for quite awhile.

Second, certain "minorities" end up with less economic power so doing scholarships based on potential, and economic factors would accomplish noble goals better than simply minority status which means well to do minorities get scholarships. If you do that you piss off minority groups, and rich people in general so it will be harder to implement than most people think, but I hope it can be done.