Is Microsoft abandoning .NET?

I found this link courtesy of Rage3D.

http://www.grimes.demon.co.uk/dotnet/vistaAndDotnet.htm

By no means am I a software engineer, and so my judgement is hardly informed, but every time I read something of Vista it seems to have been watered down from much more gradious goals. Perhaps it's a simplistic view born of ignorance, but I though .NET was going to be a fundamental pillar in the construction of Vista, liberating us from DLL hell IIRC was one quote.

So, to those of you who actually know what your talking about, is the analysis in the link correct and if so what does this imply, if anything, for Vista?
 
I don't think "MS is not using .NET on large scale projects" has anything to do with "MS is abandoning .NET."
Is MS abandoning VB because they are not using VB on any large scale projects? How many programs in XP are written in VB?
 
I read somewhere that the .NET stuff used in the Avalon and other APIs used to create apps for Vista, is being used as a test bed right now. The full potential of all these WinFX components and so on will be realized with Blackco...err Vienna.
 
you probably don't expect Sun's OS, Solaris, to be written mostly in Java.
so no surprise that most of win vista is in native code, even if we expected more stuff written in .NET. but really, if functionality is no different, who cares.
you'll still have the new object-oriented command line shell, and the WinFX and Avalon APIs made for developing .NET apps.
 
The main reason that Vista does not use WinFX (the new managed API) more is that it is still in Beta. It is very hard to build a beta version on another beta version that should uses functions from the other beta version. Microsoft have try this and failed. This was one of the reasons why the need much longer for Vista but on the other hand it made it possible to back port WinFX to Windows XP.
 
Demirug said:
The main reason that Vista does not use WinFX (the new managed API) more is that it is still in Beta. It is very hard to build a beta version on another beta version that should uses functions from the other beta version. Microsoft have try this and failed. This was one of the reasons why the need much longer for Vista but on the other hand it made it possible to back port WinFX to Windows XP.

Actually, Microsoft have said Vista not using .net/winfx framework for its operating systems had always been the plan. Of course, there are people who remember when they first said it would. :rolleyes:

Regardless Microsoft is not abandoning .net. What are people going to use for tomorrow's apps? MFC? <shudder>
 
Microsoft is definetly not abandoing .NET. In fact, Vista will be the first OS that ships with the framework implicitly included (rather than a separate download). However, perhaps their plans of writing the whole OS using managed code was too ambitious (I suspect there is simply too much legacy stuff that would need totally re-writing). Lots of stuff in Vista has been watered down simply to get it out the door, but M$ has invested too much time and effort into .NET to not continue with it as a platform (they just realise it's not suited to everything).
 
Diplo I hope this means more investment into JIT compilers because they certainly do meet the needs for dynamic applications whos resource requirements change at runtime.
Static compilers need to die a very horrible death and very soon.

I'm sick to death of the backwards nature of current coding architectures.
It's as if we live in the 19th century.
 
the awful performance of .NET
There are quite a few domains where current desktop computer speeds are fast enough. Database applications is a good example, as good databases/applications should be server (disk bandwith) limited anyway. :cool: With DB apps the ease of development often more important than the actual speed. For example you have to add the ability to inser a new document to the system. So you need a new table, a new form, a couple of reports etc. And you need these SOON.

Microsoft bought a couple of financing applications a few years back (Navision, Axapta, Great Plains). These were all different products written by different firms (in C++ perhaps), each with own strenghts and weaknesses, each including its own IDE for designing forms and reports. Microsoft is gradually rewriting those in .NET, so there will be one application with multiple profiles, consistent IDE and object model.

Microsoft is not abandoning .NET. It seems to me that they havent really gotten to use it. Maybe they are too afraid of the first version of a new prodict themselves :LOL: .
 
_xxx_ said:
I think it's more because of the awful performance of .NET. Too slow for the OS itself.

You say this from experience I wonder?

Having been using .net since early betas of 1, I've had a number of situations where I've ported my C# app to C++ out of interest (or the other way round). Usually, they come out with approximatly equal performance, however, a couple of the apps came out noticably faster in C#, while one came out noticably slower in C# (about 20% - a linear time ray tracer). It all comes down to optimising for the system. In C# you need to be careful to not invoke Gen1+ garbage collection, if you do get Gen1+ even on very small amounts of data, you can get very significant performance hits. This is not a fault of .net, although it will naturally improve with time (and multi-core) it's simply a design pattern for the language. Just like in C++ how you avoid excessive use of templates.

Overall it's just common sense, .net 2.0 was within 10% performance of C++ (VS 2003) in the last statistical benchmarking I read. Thats old. .net 2.0 is out after all. Heck it was faster in a few cases too.
Who would really care about 10%? speed these days is algorithm and cache usage. Absolutly simple changes can be almost orders of magnitude now days.

There are other significant performance advantages. One example would be managed directX, in theory using managed directX may be significantly faster than unmanaged directX as much of the the overhead of COM can be bypassed (at least in theory). Not that it really matters in DX that much anyway, as providing you are competent then you will be gpu limited anyway.

That said, I don't believe the article includes C++/Cli assemblies, which I'd expect are quite common in vista. Visual studio, for example, makes quite heavy use of .net, yet is written off in a single sentance.

Frankly, the benifits of a managed language are quite enormous (security, reflection, etc etc). I aggree totally with what killer says on this.

Also remember that .net MSIL code (the code that gets written to assemblies) is very highly optimised before being written, so the runtime compiling is mostly just converting to the current architecture than actually compiling. This is where the advantages really come in, my .net apps fully support and take advantage of x64 for example, and I didn't have to do a thing. :) What about in 5 years,? will we still be using x86?


Microsoft do have the 'singulartiy' research project going on, this is a brand new, *totally* managed code operating system. It's quite interesting. Needless to say it's not going to replace windows any day soon, but the possibilities for smaler scale systems are quite awesome.
 
While .NET apps do work well for ordinary stuff, the ones I wrote for 24/7 use tend to break down every once in a while, without giving a good error message to show why. While the native ones just keep on running.
 
DiGuru said:
While .NET apps do work well for ordinary stuff, the ones I wrote for 24/7 use tend to break down every once in a while, without giving a good error message to show why. While the native ones just keep on running.

Well in that case you have some memory leak in your program :) Shouldn't be hard to find with a good memory profiler.
 
Graham said:
You say this from experience I wonder?

No need for much experience, just start a "Hello world" app written in .net and look how long it takes for it to start, the first time at least. Feels like early days of Java all over again...

EDIT: though it might rather be because of the way it's implemented in Win2k/XP, dunno.

On the other side, C# is really sexy. Such a pity the platform/framework itself is so bloated and VB still there.
 
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