Interesting interview mentioning canceled sega consoles

I've heard of the SH4+3dfx... That *was* the black-belt/shark/dural system. The popular notion that it was a PowerPC+3dfx is odd. A PowerPC 603e was a candidate for it, but the Sega of America skunk works team actually went with the SH4+3dfx design, but for some reason the PowerPC seems to have stuck to some people's memories (probably because that's what early press coverage focussed on). I actually met and had a nice chat with one of the guys from the 11-man "skunk-works" team at E3 a couple of years ago.
 
Interesting supposition about Sony at the end. I never really drew that corollary before, but I think it has merit. Hopefully it's not true though.
 
Interesting supposition about Sony at the end. I never really drew that corollary before, but I think it has merit. Hopefully it's not true though.

I think Sony has learned the hard way this generation about various issues that ultimately put them into third place as we speak and with Ken Kutaragi no longer a part of SCE, things will definately be a different story with the PS4.
 
That current 3rd place setting looks likely to switch to 2nd place before the year is out (worldwide), and has won them the all-important next-gen HD media battle. I think Sony's doing fine with PS3 ;)

The only thing Sony really did wrong from a programmer's perspective is not getting good enough tools out early enough.
 
That current 3rd place setting looks likely to switch to 2nd place before the year is out (worldwide), and has won them the all-important next-gen HD media battle. I think Sony's doing fine with PS3.
For that to happen, PS3 will need to outsell XB360 by however many million. 7 or 8. If XB360 sell 10 million, PS3 will have to sell 18. A lot of PS3's momentum from key titles isn't going to happen until mid-2008 and later, which means those big sales are all going to have to come at the end of the year. Seems improbable to me, unless there's a dramatic turnaround and XB360 falls totally out of favour, or maybe PS3 gets a large price-drop in the not-too-distant future.
 
For that to happen, PS3 will need to outsell XB360 by however many million. 7 or 8. If XB360 sell 10 million, PS3 will have to sell 18. A lot of PS3's momentum from key titles isn't going to happen until mid-2008 and later, which means those big sales are all going to have to come at the end of the year. Seems improbable to me, unless there's a dramatic turnaround and XB360 falls totally out of favour, or maybe PS3 gets a large price-drop in the not-too-distant future.

The question is if the 360 can keep it´s momentum and if the PS3 is gonna gain momentum. I think the PS3 will be back with a vengeance.
 
The question is if the 360 can keep it´s momentum and if the PS3 is gonna gain momentum. I think the PS3 will be back with a vengeance.

I dont' think the 360 can keep its momentum, things like the RROD issues take time to sink into the psyche of the general buyer but eventually they do and then things change.
 
The question is if the 360 can keep it´s momentum and if the PS3 is gonna gain momentum. I think the PS3 will be back with a vengeance.
I would agree with that, but at the same time to suggest PS3 will make up 8 million units above XB360 seems a stretch to me. It's not selling gangbusters in Japan, and is losing ground in the States. Sony need a US turnaround, or for Europe to buy 500k per month more than XB360s!
 
Why does these threads always turn into a PS3/360 console war just because a technical director at Sega of America said that PS3 could be going the same way as the Saturn.

I wish for once that the PS3 fanboys could just give it a rest and stay on topic.

Nice article op. I would have loved to have seen what the SH4+3Dfx board combo would have been capable of.
 
Sega-16: You arrived at Sega when the company was at its peak and you left after the Dreamcast had been discontinued and focus shifted to creating games for multiple platforms. What was it like seeing such a great hardware company give up making consoles?

Toshiyasu Morita: It really wasn't a great shock to see Sega giving up hardware. Internally, many of us had been talking about this for at least three or four years before the event happened. My impression was that since Sega started out as a hardware company, most of the senior people in management were hardware people, and therefore they didn't want to view the company as a software company because it would mean they were no longer relevant.

One very sad thing I see is Sony following directly in Sega's footsteps. The Playstation hardware is becoming more difficult to program and also more expensive. If this trend continues, Sony may be forced to exit the hardware market eventually also.

True and False. Gray matters.

False,
The reason Dreamcast exit, illustrates a precedent for the effects of mass Copy Theft on the gaming market.
The simplicity of its security was quickly defected without hardware modification. And there was no end in sight.
Same could happen to any console on the market including handhelds. We should be mindful of this.
My Dreamcast was the first console I ever fully paid for before launch, then kept and loved.
The emotional gong of Sega's financial losses and mediocre showing was an extremely humbling moment.
Microsoft convinced Sega that it would be a great idea to let Microsoft them help create the Dreamcast.
What Microsoft didn’t tell them is that they were doing it to learn about creating their own console. :devilish:

Within just a few months of Dreamcast launching on 9-9-1999, Microsoft starts issuing press releases for Xbox.
Then Microsoft starts advertising for there Xbox platform throughout 2000, even shipping development kits out by July 2000.
Furthermore Microsoft goes back to all the developers it met with while helping Dreamcast launch the year before and tells them you already have Windows tools,
Here is a windows based Development kit one year after the Windows CE version Sega gave you.
Adding insult to injury, Has anyone noticed that the Xbox360 controller looks like Dreamcast’s + Controller?
Even the week before Christmas Microsoft Announces the worldwide release plans for Xbox to give people cause to not spend their money that Christmas.
Do to the lack of sales & additional competition, the next month on January 31, 2001 Sega announced it would be withdrawing from the market.
Microsoft helped kill Dreamcast by pretending to work as a consultant, when it was really the competition getting paid to do its own research.
I wasn’t any happier when Microsoft financially helped Immersion sue Sony and was granted an injunction blocking Dual Shock from the PS3.

True, he is precisely correct.
A console can only go so far when it sells for a high price, at a high loss, AND is difficult to develop games for.
That nearly happened this time. The first runtime and dev kit was ABSOLUTELY CRAPPY TO WORK WITH so the whole market was largely sour.
The saving grace is that PS2 was still going strong and had a similar start, so top developer were hopeful that the programming would again work out.
If not for Developers previous success with PS2, Sony Computer Entertainment would have had to close shop. Period.
(The PS2 was at capable of out of order execution, and did not require programming by proxy extensions to SPE, whatever that was?)

Grey Matters,
Had the following been present at launch the issue would not have been so depressingly doom and gloom.
The saving grace for development right now is SDK 3.0 (with an April 07 miracle called Runtime 2.1) and a fix for fatal stalls.
As well as new and improved developer tools, plus real university taught education programs.
(PlaystationEdge, PhyreEngine, MIT, CIT, GeorgiaTech, USC, etc, etc)
Quite frankly parallel processing was too advanced/new an idea for most gaming studios to develop for.
Even on the PC, only the very largest studios were in 2007 just beginning to use multi-threaded engines.
So it was critically to get into the educational institutions and teach multi-core architecture, ISA's, and programming structures.
This way developer would be able to work for themselves and not rely on reworking other game's engine.
Now that is happening and developers again have hope for the following development cycles will be much better.

Consumers....I am not at liberty to say too much about. (Overkill is, as overkill writes.)
But I will say that right now the games are working and looking a lot better than they did this time last year.
Plus, there is a demo or two being shown under NDA that has the press gob-smackingly glowing about the future.
The online PlayStation Network and HOME may have taken 2 years but it is finally looking good.
A few key developers are deciding it would be smarter to start using the PS3 as their lead platform.
Oh and Dual Shock 3 finally had a date for April or June of 2008! (Yet another reason that PS3 was almost DOA.)
Halleluiah! I may now buy one for myself.

(Blu-Ray, PlayTV DVR/Slingbox/DRM-Free, Yellow Dog Linux 6, Skype PSP, RemotePlay, Resistance FoM 2, MGS4, LBP, GT5, Uncharted, R&CF:ToD, HOME, etc)
 
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Make it mid-'09 then. Nonetheless, PS3 will surpass 360 as the 360 is losing ground everywhere but the U.S.

Losing ground is relative - the 360 sales are still accelerating year-over-year, there is no downward trend in sight yet. The PS3 needs to outsell it by a huge margin each month in order to take the overall lead before 2010. It's nowhere close to that margin yet.

(Sorry to continue the off-topic discussion.)

Back on topic - FutureCTO brings up an interesting point. Like him, I thought that the rampant piracy of the software media was the real reason for the Dreamcast's withdrawal. When consoles are sold at a loss and software is relied upon to make money, the Dreamcast's piracy problems spelled its death. It would seem to me that Sony or MS had little to do with this.
 
Sony and Microsoft had a negative effect from a market perspective.
Sony was already embedded thanks to the PSX.
So many people didn't buy a Dreamcast waiting to see what the PS2 had to offer.
Sega Dreamcast was supposed to have one year launch advantage to build momentum.
But Microsoft had provided all the middleware and revisit all the developers telling them in 2000 get ready for us.
Then in that second holiday when the PS2 launched with a dismal showing of launch games Xbox yelled out to the press wait until next year.

So the Christmas of Dreamcast's launch people were waiting for PS2.
Then next Christmas for launch of the PS2 people were waiting for the Xbox.
People did not want to buy until they saw the other side of the fence.
And Dreamcast was not able to gain enough momentum before the year of the Xbox.
Developers had a Windows CE machine called Dreamcast & a Windows NT machine called Xbox.

Sega did not get enough help with hardware protection against piracy.
What Xbox offered was technical built upon Dreamcast with superior technical details.
How could someone successfully compete, with competition that knew all their secrets?

The Xbox was as much a violation of trust, as any business partnership I have ever seen.
 
Most DC games didn't use Windows or MS middleware, and MS weren't involved in the design of the DC itself. MS could see the DC was in trouble before it launched so it wasn't surprising that they decided they needed to counter Sony themselves.

There's no doubt that piracy hurt the DC, but Sega were almost certainly in a terminal decline before it became a big issue. At the time of the DC's exit Sega had fixed the "built in mod chip" for new systems (some of the final 2001 DC's from Japan couldn't boot from CDs).

If Sega had focused on making money (like Nintendo did/do) and keeping their fans happy instead of trying to "beat Sony" and "win Japan" perhaps they would still be making hardware.

A DC with a Voodoo 2 level GPU in it would have been a shadow of the much more capable machine that actually appeared, though it may have helped them keep EA on board.
 
So the Christmas of Dreamcast's launch people were waiting for PS2.
Then next Christmas for launch of the PS2 people were waiting for the Xbox.
People did not want to buy until they saw the other side of the fence.
Yet strangely XB360 never had that problem? It managed to sell a good number of millions before Wii and PS3 arrived on the scene. Any fault of Sega to convince people to buy their hardware is a fault of Sega's marketing and hardware choices, that they didn't prevent a compelling purchase. The gen MS went up against the PlayStation behemoth and the historically champion Nintendo without the track-record of Sega and managed to pull of significant sales, so you argument seems a wash to me. Sega were out-competed.

The Xbox was as much a violation of trust, as any business partnership I have ever seen.
What a wonderfully melodramatic comment! Don't forget MS were courting the other companies too, offering their tools to Sony and Nintendo. They just wanted a platform (or indeed all the platforms) running their systems, and to play it safe they launched their own system. In terms of violation of trust, any (dubious) link with MS scamming Sega pales into insignificance next the betrayal of Sony by Nintendo regards their CD system, or the other manoeuvres MS have pulled of in establishing themselves as the sole PC OS provider. I doubt 'trust' really exists in the big-business world to be broken. There are deals and contracts and clauses, not promises.
 
I'm not sure if I agree with Morita's comments at the end of the article at all. For one, it's debatable that PS3 is harder to develop for than PS2 was. PS2 was also very weird and both the EE and GS were designed in house and did not follow traditional architectures, at least the RSX is a G7X derivative. Secondly Sony is in a much stronger position with the PS3 then Sega was in with the Dreamcast. Yes it's in third place right now but I think PS3 is going to be around a lot longer than x360 or the Wii and will eventually carve out it's spot in the market. Also when Sega went under they had had two failures in a row, saturn and Dreamcast... PS2 obviously was very very far from a failure.
 
I'm not sure if I agree with Morita's comments at the end of the article at all. For one, it's debatable that PS3 is harder to develop for than PS2 was. PS2 was also very weird and both the EE and GS were designed in house and did not follow traditional architectures, at least the RSX is a G7X derivative. Secondly Sony is in a much stronger position with the PS3 then Sega was in with the Dreamcast. Yes it's in third place right now but I think PS3 is going to be around a lot longer than x360 or the Wii and will eventually carve out it's spot in the market.

QFT. PS3 started slow, but it's catching on now with devs and users.

Also when Sega went under they had had two failures in a row, saturn and Dreamcast... PS2 obviously was very very far from a failure.

4 failures if you count 32x & Sega CD.
 
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